Having Kids

[Dr. Bubbles]

WOW! Lots and lots and lots of comments made about the choice of having babies. Let me clear up and state that I ended my conversation with "that's my choice."

I appreciate the warm remarks made from Naughty, Twista and Madame about my choice in having children and wanting to be a stay-at-home mom. Ideally, if finances are in place, this will be an ultimate goal. Realistically, however, my spouse will have to agree to that as well - and I understand it. I just feel that I could raise my children better than anyone else and would love to do that.

Someone sent me a private message and asked about me giving up everything that I had worked for to this point. As mentioned earlier, my parents cannot understand my decision (like this is happening in the next couple of months anyway), but I don't look at it as giving anything up. I am well educated and have been very fortunate with my educational career as well as my professional career. I am quite successful, but I have a void. For me, I think that void is not having children (yet). The void would worsen if I had children and had to leave them with a nanny or sitter everyday.

I just know how I am. Who knows, maybe my opinions will change someday, but right now, that is what I WANT TO DO. I do not push my ideas on anyone nor do I want them to feel I have. This is simply a choice that I AM comfortable with concerning my life.

I think we all have to do what we feel is comfortable for us. Some people do not want children. I respect their position. Some people do not want children of their own but love them. I equally respect them as well. They know best what type of parent they would be (or would not be). Some people want children and cannot have them. These individuals I feel the most pain for, as I could not phantom being in that situation. My heart aches with them. Some people have children and neglect to love and care for them. They should be severely beaten (yes, physically beaten - again, my opinion). I will leave that one alone before I say to much. And then there are those who want children for the simple desire of having them and caring for them. This is the category I fall into. It is my choice and my decision. No one else's and no one can strip that away from me.

So, make you own choices about children but be deliberate and thoughtful in your decisions. And do not cast stones to those of us who want them or to those of us who don't. It's all about choices and decisions....

And, for my private email sender........ This should be responsive enough to answer and clarify any further questions you have about my decisions or the decisions of others.

That is all...

bb

 

[madame_zora]

Very beautifully said, BB. With an attitude like that, I am sure you will make a terrific mother. I wish you godspeed in achieving your dreams!

 

[tracksuitboy]

Originally posted by jonb@Jun 26 2004, 03:13 AM
As for families, you'd be surprised how rare the "nuclear family" is.

It exists only in TV SitComs, doesn't it?

And "Leafy Suburbs" of course.

 

[naughty]

Heh TSB,

I beg your pardon, my family lived in the Cleaver house! Of course . we had to tie up Eldridge and throw him in the closet when company came over! LOL! No seriously, my brothers friends used to knickname us "The Cleavers" ( Leave it to Beaver)

Naughty

 

[tracksuitboy]

I am sad to say / glad to say (delete as applicable) that I haven't a clue what any of Naughty's post means as that particular series has never made it to the UK.

 

[naughty]

Heh Tracksuit,

"Leave it to beaver" was the ubiquitous nuclear family show of the 50's right next to "Father knows best" .The parents were always understanding and the mother stayed at home and baked cookies for her two sons, Wally and Beaver.The family name was Cleaver. My reference to Eldridge Cleaver is a joke. He was a black nationalist during the turbulent 60's who advocated "Burn, baby Burn" and would not have been caught dead in the ""Leave it to Beaver" Cleaver household.

Naughty

 

[tracksuitboy]

Naughty my dear, one thanks one and one feels well and truly clued up.

I was channel hopping the other day and noticed that one of the endless-satellite-channels-which-shows-nothing-but-repeats-of-old-programmes was showing, erm, a repeat of "The Dick Van Dyke" show. I seem to remember regularly watching that back in 1900-and-fozen-to-death and enjoying it (yes! I am that old!!; but - boy! - was I disappointed seeing this again. It seemed all so twee; all little-wifey-must-stay-at-home cuteness. Yuk. How times have changed!

 

[13788]

maverackstud8: MADAME-i think kids are important no mater the outcome.you know some of my thoughts of this board.

 

[madame_zora]

Yes, kids are incredible gifts to be treasured by the ones lucky enough to share their lives with them. I agree wholeheartedly. I just think it's equally important for people to know themselves well enough to know if they want to be parents. If you aren't ready to devote everything you have and everything you are to it, then it's better not to do it at all, IMHO.

 

[13788]

LoveGirl: I don't think being gay and having children is a bad thing, but not giving your children a good life is. Michael's 2 moms (lol) were really poor so he grew up with very little compared to the kids around him. By my own ideas they shouldn't have had him but he has been a very powerful and productive member of society. My life would be terrible if it weren't for him. My thought is no child should have to go without good toys or food just because their parents can't afford it. He and his parents were fat only because sugar has been one of the cheapest 'foods' for a long time. They did go without food a few times (I think) but not for very long. Having unprotected sex (for straight people, no offence to gay or bisexual people) is wrong unless you are ready to have children with your partner. Also, willingly and knowingly raising children in abusive environments is wrong. Just so you know this is sort of a rant. Basically all I'm saying is Michael had it kind of rough because he was, A. caucasian in a dominantly hispanic US town, B. fat, C. poor, and D. had ^fat^, lesbian (They don't think/didn't think they are lesbians, one is, after all, straight and the other is a man in a womans body(sorry maybe I'm wrong calling them lesbians I just don't get all the different sexualities out there)) parents.

 

[jonb]

Transgender and intersex use the terms androphilic and gynecophilic. I don't know what it's called when you prefer a transgender or intersex.

I'm sure most here will forgive the heterosexism; unprotected sex, particularly of the anal variety with multiple partners, is a bad idea with members of the same sex too, because there can still be reproduction involved: Reproduction of retroviruses which attack the immune system.

 

[headbang8]

Originally posted by tracksuitboy@Jul 2 2004, 02:04 PM
I was channel hopping the other day and noticed that one of the endless-satellite-channels-which-shows-nothing-but-repeats-of-old-programmes was showing, erm, a repeat of "The Dick Van Dyke" show. I seem to remember regularly watching that back in 1900-and-fozen-to-death and enjoying it (yes! I am that old!!; but - boy! - was I disappointed seeing this again. It seemed all so twee; all little-wifey-must-stay-at-home cuteness. Yuk. How times have changed!

Do you think that some wicked souls in the fifties and sixties deliberately snuck suggestive names into the mix just so they could have the exquisite pleasure of seeing what they could sneak by the censors? I mean, doesn't the name Dick van Dyke make you think of a Dutch lesbian's strap-on? Think about the name "Peter O'Toole". And naming an eight year old character Beaver Cleaver? C'mon! Like they didn't know already!

 

[madame_zora]

Originally posted by LoveGirl@Jul 10 2004, 08:35 PM
I don't think being gay and having children is a bad thing, but not giving your children a good life is. Michael's 2 moms (lol) were really poor so he grew up with very little compared to the kids around him. By my own ideas they shouldn't have had him but he has been a very powerful and productive member of society. My life would be terrible if it weren't for him. My thought is no child should have to go without good toys or food just because their parents can't afford it. He and his parents were fat only because sugar has been one of the cheapest 'foods' for a long time. They did go without food a few times (I think) but not for very long. Having unprotected sex (for straight people, no offence to gay or bisexual people) is wrong unless you are ready to have children with your partner. Also, willingly and knowingly raising children in abusive environments is wrong. Just so you know this is sort of a rant. Basically all I'm saying is Michael had it kind of rough because he was, A. caucasian in a dominantly hispanic US town, B. fat, C. poor, and D. had ^fat^, lesbian (They don't think/didn't think they are lesbians, one is, after all, straight and the other is a man in a womans body(sorry maybe I'm wrong calling them lesbians I just don't get all the different sexualities out there)) parents.

Lovegirl. I've missed you!!! I so completely agree with what you said. You know how I feel through our conversations, caring for your children is more important than anything. Anyone who does this to the best of their ability is a hero in my book, anyone who neglects them is human waste. It is not about sexual identity, gender, who the parents are...it is about what they do with what they have. Don't stay gone so long, I love your insightfulness.

Children often have the ability to flourish despite bad parenting, and I am sure you would not give up Micheal for anything, but it is a burden to have to overcome a negative childhood for anyone. As always, I wish the two of you the greatest joys.



Headbang, I agree about the funny names! I think it must have been an inside joke during a very repressive time...

 

[headbang8]

Why won't I have kids? Philip Larkin answered in This be the Verse

They fuck you up, your mum and dad.
They may not mean to, but they do.
They fill you with the faults they had
And add some extra, just for you.

But they were fucked up in their turn
By fools in old-style hats and coats,
Who half the time were soppy-stern
And half at one another's throats.

Man hands on misery to man.
It deepens like the coastal shelf.
Get out as early as you can,
And don't have any kids yourself.


hb8

 

[madame_zora]

Wow, a gruesome portrait, but there is some truth in it. Speaking of Portrait, how about Marilyn Manson's "Cake and Sodomy"? I'll have to go dig up the lyrics...

 

[13788]

HornyVeteranSJ:

OTOH i think people put off having kids or choose not to altogether sometimes out of being too busy, or selfish to have them. Well kids are at an advantage not to be born into that, but its not right of people to be too into 'ME ME ME' to have a family.

I'm a gay man who always wanted a child. Most of my friends have children already. I remember when I was a teenager I always said to myself and a few others, "I want to wait until I'm 30 to have children. By that time I should have my career going, and all of my 'wild oats' sewn." A lot of things have changed since then...and I have 2 years to go until my preset age for children passes.

Recently I've asked some family and friends if it's selfish of me not bringing a child into the world. With crime and terrorist increasing here in the US and the world, I thought it would be a crime to subject a child to these changing times that only seems to be getting worse. I would have had 2 children by now if things would have gone right (or wrong.) They would have been 12 and 5 years old.
The 12 yo's fate was sealed because we were both young and wasn't ready for a child. The 5 year old was a tubular pregnancy and had to be terminated, much against my ex's desires. We had broken up a little after the baby was conceived, and she thought by keeping it we would get back together. I had to literally drag her to the hospital. Now if everything went as it should've that wouldn't have changed how I felt about my ex...and the child would have grown up in an unfavorable condition IMHO. I have some issues I still have to deal with and so I still suffer from depression. In my situation, it would be unfair to have kids until I can get help for myself and get myself in order.
There are so many kids born out of wedlock...born into dysfunctional families, etc. I think it's selfish of those people to have kids. It's a tax break for them come April and that's wrong! It's wrong to subject them to such abuse. For them to see different people come in and out of their lives with no stability. I would never allow that to happen if and when I do have children. I'd want to have all if not most of my internal conflicts resolved so I can devote my all to my children. Who knows? I might be like Dee, and this gay thing might be a phase...sometimes it feels like such. But I don't think it's selfish to want to get everything out of the way or at least managable before raising a child.

 

[txquis]

I love kids and I have a knack for
understanding and teaching them.
That was even my profession once.

But, i do not want any of my own.

Actually, i'm a personality type that craves responsibility,
but, the real reason is not that i couldnt handle it,
but because i am somewhat selfish

i was a late bloomer...in puberty,
in discovering and exploring a career,
in discovering and exploring my sexuality,
and realizing personal dreams and goals.

I'm not yet ready to guide someone else.

I've reached the stage where i can have
a healthy relationship with myself...
and a healthy relationship with my family...
and a healthy relationship with a partner....

the kids will have to wait.

 

[tracksuitboy]

Originally posted by madame_zora@Jul 9 2004, 07:41 AM
Yes, kids are incredible gifts to be treasured by the ones lucky enough to share their lives with them. I agree wholeheartedly. I just think it's equally important for people to know themselves well enough to know if they want to be parents. If you aren't ready to devote everything you have and everything you are to it, then it's better not to do it at all, IMHO.

Absolutely right; that's exactly what I was trying to say earlier on in the thread when little-miss-slightly-sore got her knickers in a twist. You put it much better than I Madame!