McCain's shocking attack on Bush

[B_jacknapier]

i guess now we're going to have a dozen new mccain-bashing threads a day now that hillary is no longer a viable target

 

[HyperHulk]

I didn't hear McCain's little talk, but I have noticed that when he tries to make a jest he pulls his mouth back and makes a sound very much like Dick Cheney's chuckle. Frightening. No real sense of humor, just clenched teeth. I get the unnerving sense that he's been so allied with the pod people that he now just serves as a physical shell from which the neocons try to make him look as if he is really an individual, living entity. They DO walk among us, ya know.

McCain's speech: http://cdn.sfgate.com/blogs/sounds/sfgate/chroncast/2008/06/03/McCain_20080603.mp3

 

[marleyisalegend]

I have no idea where you're coming from. Do you really think Obama could have made it this far by being that vague on key issues? He has an entire website that addresses many of the issues in detail. Check it out.

I think you're thinking of Romney. Obama is quite clear in what he believes in. Does he have every strategy worked out? No. He wants the troops out of Iraq but when and how is still something that needs to be worked on. That's fine. What I want to see is the passion and commitment to doing something but continuing failed Bush policies.

Just so you know, Obama is for civil unions, not gay marriage, he supports a woman's right to choose and he's for some forms of gun control.

I will concede that Obama doesn't do the thing I used to love about Bill Clinton. If you asked Bill Clinton what he was going to do about a particular problem, he would tell you, I'm going to do 1, 2 & 3. I loved that. I hope he picks that up when Bill gives him all the advice on how to win it all.

maybe we're watching different speeches but the vagueness you deem impossible in reference to his success has DEFINITELY been displayed in some of his speeches, i'm not the first person to say this. i'm certainly not confusing obama for romney.

 

[HyperHulk]

i guess now we're going to have a dozen new mccain-bashing threads a day now that hillary is no longer a viable target

I'm not interested in bashing McCain. I'm just saying I've listened to his speech and I see that he has a problem with his identity and message and those problems are going to damage his chances. I had no idea he would attack Bush so forcefully and bluntly. I don't see that working for him. There is no doubt that he has to frame himself as not-Bush, but he can't do it by calling out all of Bush's failures. That works against him in his own party. It's sacrilege. It's actually worse and more damaging that Scott McClellan's book. You can't win by undermining your own party. Say what you want about Bush but he is still the number one campaign fund-raiser for his party. And McCain goes on national tv and tells everyone Bush mismanaged the war in Iraq (which is ongoing) and that's the tip of the iceberg? Then go in front of the people supporting Bush and ask for their money and support?

That's insane. Bush has made it too hard for McCain to effectively overcome him. It will become clearer and clearer as the campaign continues.

 

[HazelGod]

Frightening. No real sense of humor, just clenched teeth. I get the unnerving sense that he's been so allied with the pod people that he now just serves as a physical shell from which the neocons try to make him look as if he is really an individual, living entity. They DO walk among us, ya know.

Indeed.

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/images/mccain-mtsdspeech2-blog.jpg

 

[TinyPrincess]

I'm listening to McCain's speech and I'm in shock.

McCain said in his speech today "I strongly disagreed with the Bush administration's mismanagement of the war in Iraq."

He has to get some distance between himself and Bush in order to have a chance in the election. Disagreeing with Bush will not harm him that much - his base and the extreme right will vote for him no matter what. Do you think for a moment the extreme right will stay home on election day thus handing the keys to the white house to a "negro"??? NO WAY!!! Not going to happen - McCain is free to say whatever he likes - they will vote come november - all of them... But it will hurt McCain when asking for money - a lot...

So McCain has to choose between getting the money or the white house. And you can't win the white house without money, so what shall he do...? He has lost no matter what...

 

[HyperHulk]

He has to get some distance between himself and Bush in order to have a chance in the election. Disagreeing with Bush will not harm him that much - his base and the extreme right will vote for him no matter what. Do you think for a moment the extreme right will stay home on election day thus handing the keys to the white house to a "negro"??? NO WAY!!! Not going to happen - McCain is free to say whatever he likes - they will vote come november - all of them... But it will hurt McCain when asking for money - a lot...

So McCain has to choose between getting the money or the white house. And you can't win the white house without money, so what shall he do...? He has lost no matter what...

The extreme right can't stand McCain. I see many of them sitting this one out. Obama may be liberal but he's not polarizing. He doesn't inspire people to oppose him the same way the Clintons do or even Jesse Jackson.

Again, you have to actually listen to McCain's speech, it was awkward to say the least. He can't be giving speeches like that on a national stage or to his party. He can't be calling Bush out. He's essentially saying "you dumb people elected a dumb man and you should have elected me before, now's your chance." This won't work. It won't rev people up. It won't excite his base. So if his base and support is ho-hum and Obama's base and support is super-excited, who wins?

 

[marleyisalegend]

Do you think for a moment the extreme right will stay home on election day thus handing the keys to the white house to a "negro"??? NO WAY!!!

that was extremely an disrespectful reference to an archaic racial pejorative.

 

[TinyPrincess]

The extreme right can't stand McCain. Obama may be liberal but he's not polarizing. He doesn't inspire people to oppose him the same way the Clintons do or even Jesse Jackson.

I totally agree.

He can't be calling Bush out. He's essentially saying "you dumb people elected a dumb man and you should have elected me before, now's your chance."

Well, he should have won 8 years ago :smile: I see your point, but I actually thinks he HAS to call Bush out - at least for two reasons.

1. He has to win the swing votes to have any chance at all. He can only win those by going with the flow and distance himself from Bush.

2. McCain has one major advantage to all competitors - he's regarded 100% honest by a majority of the voters. He stands by his views even though they might not be political correct or liked by the media. He supports the war in Iraq but not how it has been conducted or even the premises it was started on. Being true to himself, he's bound to tell this and thus calling Bush out.

that was extremely an disrespectful reference to an archaic racial pejorative.

Perhaps - but do you disagree? Can you see the extreme religious right vote for Obama, you or me?

If not - can you see the extreme religious right stay at home on election day if the polls shows a dead race? Or a small advantage to Obama, you or me?

If not - aren't McCain or any other GOP candidate free to say whatever he pleases on just about any subject?

 

[1BiGG1]

There is nothing shocking about McCain’s speech; it was designed to distance himself a little from the current President to attract cross-over voters.

While I’m sure he agrees with most of what George Bush is doing as I do, Bush is an unpopular President right now and that speech was designed to show he plans on changing some of the things that make him unpopular.

 

[TinyPrincess]

^ agree

 

[1BiGG1]

The voted for him once. Gore won the first election and everyone knows that. Bush won the second term but on the back of 9/11 and terror fears. And he barely won.....

It’s sickening that people still run around claiming this! I’m sorry and all but just because Al Gore was not allowed to steal an election with “hanging chads” does not mean Bush lost the election.

 

[TinyPrincess]

Bush won - and he was a good president until 9/11

 

[B_JasonDawgxxx]

He was? News to me or anyone else living here

 

[TinyPrincess]

So you prefer him post 9/11

 

[marleyisalegend]

If not - can you see the extreme religious right stay at home on election day if the polls shows a dead race? Or a small advantage to Obama, you or me?

If not - aren't McCain or any other GOP candidate free to say whatever he pleases on just about any subject?

whether or not i agree with your comment is irrelevant. many people consider it extremely disrespectful to refer to african americans as "negros".

 

[TinyPrincess]

Do you think African Americans were worse of than African slaves in Brazil or the Carribian?

People are still being enslaved aroung the world - I was born in a country where your position in life is still decided by the caste you're born into.

It might be a harsh word but it's still (at least to my knowledge) the most precise description for some of the groups to use. I could easily imagine other and even worse words are being used by some on the extreme right when talking about Obama.

As long as you let the N-word hurt you, some people will continue to use it. It's 2008 - you have to move on...

 

[marleyisalegend]

Do you think African Americans were worse of than African slaves in Brazil or the Carribian?

People are still being enslaved aroung the world - I was born in a country where your position in life is still decided by the caste you're born into.

It might be a harsh word but it's still (at least to my knowledge) the most precise description for some of the groups to use. I could easily imagine other and even worse words are being used by some on the extreme right when talking about Obama.

As long as you let the N-word hurt you, some people will continue to use it. It's 2008 - you have to move on...

i'm not letting it "hurt" me but you used a word to describe a black man that has NEVER had anything but a negative conotation to it. what's wrong with black or african american?? why do u insist on and defend using a word that has such negative conotations?? the adult thing to do would be to recognize that it was used in poor taste and learn the mistake, not defend it by launching into a tirade about black suffering.

 

[TinyPrincess]

Because this is the best word to descripe why the extreme right will vote for McCain in November no matter what he says until then.

McCain can claim the moon is made of green cheese - and they will still vote for him.

Obama can be as "white" as he can - they will still see him as a "N-word"...

 

[1BiGG1]

He was? News to me or anyone else living here

Its not news to me, I think he was a good president pre and post 9/11. Like Reagan had a giant mess to clean up after Carter (and of course did a superb job to say the least) Bush had a gigantic mess to clean up after Clinton called the Middle East. In 20 years or so history will credit Bush with one of the greatest achievements in modern times here.

We gotta think about the past. The United States set up a major presence in Asia with military bases in the Philippine Islands, Japan & South Korea like we did throughout Europe. These areas have been stabilized now for the most part but there is one region that is lacking in stability being the Middle East.

Clinton was asleep at the wheel for his entire Presidency (riding the Reagan Revolution wave) and we didn’t even have basic intelligence from that region let alone the ability to control it. Bush and a few friends like Great Briton planted US right smack in the middle of those religious-wacko Neanderthals and we are there to stay until like Asia and Europe, the population forms governments with sane thinking. History will view this as a wise choice.