Mormons

[D_Chaumbrelayne_Copprehead]

No religion is perfect. They're all executed by humans, so they're NOT going to be perfect. Neither is the absence of religion perfect, because humans as a group seem drawn to explore their spiritual side.

Just about all religions have problems with things they've done to individuals or groups of individuals. Are there sins the Mormon church has committed against blacks ... gays ... and others? I'm sure there are.

But if we're getting into doctrines and the relative worth thereof, none of us have the room to be judgmental. I, for one, believe that this young, poor, humbly-born Jewish carpenter, living in the armpit of the Roman empire a couple of thousand years ago, really did turn out to be the son of God. And that belief has changed my life, as insane as it sounds on the face of it.

Again, we're all human, so by definition, we're going to get some stuff wrong. But ... I know some religious people who have turned their backs on hate ... racism, homophobia, etc etc etc ... based on their religious beliefs.

I do think that when we meet one or two members of a "tribe" ... religious, ethnic, cultural, whatever ... we tend to make judgments about that whole tribe based on our limited experience. I've been as guilty of that as anyone; it irritates me when I realize I've done it, 'cause it's just fucking stupid.

 

[avsfan69]

I live in Salt Lake City, so know many LDS people. Some of the inferences about family values and sense of community are true. I am not really any religion, baptised Luthern but haven't been to church since I was probably 4. I am not anti-religion, and believe in higher powers and such, but I think the whole religious scene is valuable not in the details, but how it affects people and the decisions it helps them make. If you can gain comfort in a higher power, and it guides you to make strong morale decisions, who can really question the why's?

The LDS church as a whole has some quirks, what religion doesn't, but honestly as a generalization they are very community minded, and a lot of misconceptions spin around the higher aspects of the religion that in all reality don't affect anyone but the members of the LDS church. People get up in arms about the details of the religion, but unless you chose to be there, whats it matter?

Telling people I live in Salt Lake City is always followed by the standard 2 questions "Are you Mormon" and "How many wives do you have". Humorous, but annoying. As long as people are decent to each other, and helpful for all the right reasons - I don't care if its being LDS or being high that causes it, in the end thats what matters.

Ok, rant done hope you all had a great Christmas!

 

[Freddie53]

I am a Christian, a member of the United Methodist Church. I don't believe everything that is the official doctrine of the United Methodist Church. One doctrine that I do belive very much is "the priesthood of the believer." Fancy words for a doctrine that says each of us are just as qualified as anyone else to read the Bible, listen to God and determine for ourselves what is right fo rus or wrong. Certainly all of us religious or non religious have to follow the laws of the land. My freedom should end when it interferes with someone else's freedom.

I am tolerent of most religions and tolerant of people who are not religious. The key for me is I have to be a member of a church that allows me to interpret the Bible and other sacred writings for myself.

There are a few key elements of Christianity that a person has to blieve to the a "traditional" Christian. The "Apostles' Creed" pretty much sums up what all traditional Christians beieve in a Triune God. God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit. Traadiiotnal Christians believe that god came down from heaven and lived as a man.

However, United Methodists believe that people have to cliam thier fiath for themselves. No one should try to force people to believe certain doctrines.

On of Jesus' most important teachings was about judgment. Judgment (as for as spiritual attributes and eternal life, etc) is something that totally belongs to God. We don't believe our church or any church as the power to determine to gets in or who doestn't get in. That is totally in the hands of God.

I'm leary of any religion that takes upon themselves the job of officially judging people from a spiitual and eternal viewpoint.

I may serve on a jury concerning a murder. I may vote guilty. If all the juriests vote yes, then the accused is found guilty of murder and the puinishment is carried out. But the jury still doesn't decide about the soul of that person convicted of murder. We humans aren't suppose to do that. This is God's job.

Of course if you don't belive in God, then the discussion is moot.

The most bitter people I have met are people who were members of a chruch or family that condemned them and disowned them. It left scars for life. Christianity is suppose to be about unconditional love. I love my family very much. No matter what my sons do, I will always lvoe them. I may grieve terribly over some action that they might do, but disown them? Never. A thousand times never. I may even publicaally state that I disagree with them or what they have done. But, they are still my sons and I love the dearly.

I have trouble understanding people who are Christians that can't practice unconditional love. Some people who cliam to be Christian only believe in "conditional love." The love is there only if the person follows certain actions or beliefs or lifestyles. I don't understand it. It is their right to believe and practice religion in the way that they believe.

I don't agree with them. But i wouldn't dare think about judging their relatoinship to God and judging thier souls. Only God can do that. Think about it. Who else would be in a better position than God to judge what kind of relationship a human had with God?

Let me add a statement about my church that gets us in trouble with some people. The United Methodist Church is pro-chocie on abortion. That is not a unanamous vote by any means. But here is the critical aspect of that. United Methodist are not pro-abortioin. United Methodist are only pro-chocie to the extent that we beleive that a decision like that should be made my the mother in consultation with the father, her minister, and her God. Neither my church or the governmetn should be maiking that decision for women. Does the United Methodist Church endorse abortion as a method of birth control. We certainly do not. If one of our members has an abortion, our concern is how is the mother coping with the decision? How has it affect HER relationship to God? How can we the church support her during this time in her life. How can we the chruch help her move on in her life as a child of God who God loves as much as any other child of God. God loves us all equally.

God is about restoring relationships, bringing peace and harmony to the world. and making us whole and complete as children of God. The church should be a positive force in people's lives and as part of the fabric of our culture. The church should not be a negative force for people and have a negative impact on society.

I can't be Mormon. Their beliefs go against my understanding of the Bible and God. However, I very much believe they should have the right to practice thier religion as long as they don't try to restrict my freedom to practice my religion. I'm sure that including everything, there is a lot more I agree with Mormons than thinigs I disagree with.

As far as the afterlife. Jesus said that there would be dwelling places in heaven for us. I'm not too concerned about it. I have faith that whatever God has planned for the afterlife is going to be great for me. I'm willing to let it be a surprise. Im focussing on now, not the hereafter.

Let me be clear that I have Mormon friends and have a very good relationship with them. The Elders have been polite at my house. I guess I give off enough confidence when the knock on the door that they so far haven't tried to convert me. They have been very respectful. I softely tell them what I belive and congradulate them on their committment to thier faith and wish them well. And I do. I wish all people well. I've never had a single one of the young elders give a hint of disrespect to me.

If a person can find happiness and deveop a relationship to God, (if they believe in a God) that is solid, who am I to judge them. Disgree with their interpretations of Holy Scripture Yes. Condemn them? No,

I will disagree and rectify situations when a person or group of persons have forced their beliefs on oneone who is objecting. I must speak up then. However, that doesn't give me a right to say that I have pronounced judgment on them and they are going to hell in a handbasket. I don't have that authority and neither does any other human being.

 

[2322]

I've actually never had Mormons come to the door. I don't even think I know anyone who has. Maybe that says more about me and my friends than it does about the Mormons, but I admit since seeing Latter Days, they're more than welcome at my door.

 

[Rikter8]

So... its not good to tell them that your a really horny gay guy when they come to the door?

 

[Deno]

I saw on the news that a man who created a calender of Mormon dudes shirtless just back from there ministry was excommunicated from the church. The dudes looked pretty hot, looked like a fireman's calender. Apparently the man will keep creating them anyway.

 

[Northland]

I'll start off by saying that I believe in freedom of religion and I judge everyone as an individual. In high school a friend of mine was Morman.

That much being said....

A relative recently converted to Mormanism. This relative has been through many religions, so I'm not too sure this one will stick. But in the meantime it's at least entertaining.

I met the two young men responsible for converting my relative, two guys in their late teens. Okay. So, I respect freedom of religion and freedom of expression. And I try to judge people as individuals. But that's a two-way street. I have a right to my own freedom of expression, and I'll exercise that freedom by saying that I don't like the Morman religion much as a religion. Individual Mormans I have liked, but the religion itself I find bizarre to say the least (something about having a planet, the ummum and the thumbum, or whatever, the robotic goody-two-shoes family units).

But I tried to put this all aside as I introduced myself to the young men, "missionaries" as they call themselves. I introduced myself and then asked their names. They -- these young men in their late teens -- introduced themselves as "Elder so-n-so" and "Elder so-n-so." Not Aaron. Not Jason. Not whatever their real first names are. But "Elder so-n-so." These young boys more than a decade my junior, boys who may or may not yet have pubes, expected me to refer to them as "Elders...."

I said to them in shock, "People refer to you as 'Elder'? How old are you?"

Poor boys. They did get a little uncomfortable after that. They are supposed to be big men, but they're just little boys.

At any rate, not a fan of the Mormon religion. But then I think all religion is mostly just indoctrination.

Any thoughts?

Yes, I see the parallels between Mormonism and Scientology as well. In fact, I consider them both to be "science fiction religions." I mean, the Mormons literally teach that males get their own planet. It's crazy. I have no idea how people take it seriously. Most likely they need the means the church provides. I've known people who joined it just for financial support and help they offer. This is what religions are usually about anyway: $.

Your relative made a choice. People make choices. Throughout life we are given options of what we will do. We can choose to steal the apple or to pay for it. We can buy an expensive sweater or purchase one of lesser cost (and perhaps higher quality). One can choose to drive a gas guzzler of a tank or to either walk places or use public transit or carpool or ride a bicycle-it's a choice. Buy a home or rent or live in a tent in the woods. You or I can live a life with no ingestion of animal product or we can eat a pound of beef/pork/chicken/fgoat/other each and every day-it is a choice. I made a choice to depart from the Methodist Church and not belong to any one religion-however, I am happy with the sturdy foundation which the church gave to me and my life.

This is often the same truth which comes with religion. Your relative was offered information and felt something in the way of comfort or understanding or a desire to pursue it further and learn more. Possibly a combination of any or all of those and other qualities which were placed in front of them by the Mormons. You made a choice not to pursue this religion further, which is fine. What is not fine is the arrogance and ignorance which you displayed in your post filled with mockery. You made a choice to meet with them. Whether you went to them or they came to you and you opened your door and asked them in, it was your choice-you are an adult and nobody scooped you off the street and hustled you off to an undisclosed location where you'd be forced to hear what they believe. When you make the choice you did, you owe the people a basic respect, your total lack of respect shows you had no intention of listening to them, you entered the space with a closed mind. A severe debit to your quality of life.


You began by claiming to be open to all and allowing all to have their own path to follow. Soon after, you launched into claiming Mormons and religion in general to be both crazy and driven solely for financial gain. In between, you mocked the Mormons you met and their referral to each other as Elders. It is the term which they use-nobody is forcing you to use it if it offends you. Similarly, nobody is forcing you to join their Church. The Mormons/Latter Day Saints are but one of many groups that reach out to others. In fairness, all religions do this in some way. Religions however are not alone in this. Sports teams reach out for members, fraternities of various schools and other organizations reach out-this is part of life on Earth. Through it all (as adults), we have the choice of joining or not. If I do not agree with a particular religion or group, I indicate where my disagreement is lodged and if the other party is open-minded, a dialogue takes place; during which, we hopefully learn from each other. By dismissing with mockery, you have closed off possibility, thus you have accrued a loss in your debit column of life.

There are areas of The Latter Day Saints doctrines and practices with which I do not agree-this is how I feel about most organized groups and it is a part of being human. Part of what we were given, in addition to choice, is an ability to think open-mindedly which in turn offers us the opportunity of making a choice of following a route which will make us most comfortable-without endangering others. If I find something which seems contradictory to what they profess to be in their tenets, as is true with any religion, group or person, I will state my reasons and await the feedback. I will not however decide that it is my right to ridicule what has given peace to so many and has brought forth people who have done good for the world.

 

[D_Ireonsyd_Colonrinse]

I don't think the Mormon faith is any more or less bizarre than the christian belief in virgin births, glorious "RAPTURES" (a rapturous Second Coming), or a talking snake tempting a woman in the Garden of Eden.

Mormons believe when you die you get to (essentially) become your own god and rule your own planet, right?

I knew a couple mormons in high school in San Diego. They were quiet, handsome, unassuming decent guys. Both become missionaries for their faith.

Speaking of gay mormons (for any gay or bisexual mormons out there): Both movies "Latter Days" and the HBO film "Angels in America" prominently feature gay mormons. (Mary Kay Place plays the mother of one one these mormons - a terrific, intense performance! - and Meryl Streep place the mother of the other). Each film is interesting & worth checking out.

 

[B_henry miller]

Your relative made a choice. People make choices. Throughout life we are given options of what we will do. We can choose to steal the apple or to pay for it. We can buy an expensive sweater or purchase one of lesser cost (and perhaps higher quality). One can choose to drive a gas guzzler of a tank or to either walk places or use public transit or carpool or ride a bicycle-it's a choice. Buy a home or rent or live in a tent in the woods. You or I can live a life with no ingestion of animal product or we can eat a pound of beef/pork/chicken/fgoat/other each and every day-it is a choice. I made a choice to depart from the Methodist Church and not belong to any one religion-however, I am happy with the sturdy foundation which the church gave to me and my life.

This is often the same truth which comes with religion. Your relative was offered information and felt something in the way of comfort or understanding or a desire to pursue it further and learn more. Possibly a combination of any or all of those and other qualities which were placed in front of them by the Mormons. You made a choice not to pursue this religion further, which is fine. What is not fine is the arrogance and ignorance which you displayed in your post filled with mockery. You made a choice to meet with them. Whether you went to them or they came to you and you opened your door and asked them in, it was your choice-you are an adult and nobody scooped you off the street and hustled you off to an undisclosed location where you'd be forced to hear what they believe. When you make the choice you did, you owe the people a basic respect, your total lack of respect shows you had no intention of listening to them, you entered the space with a closed mind. A severe debit to your quality of life.


You began by claiming to be open to all and allowing all to have their own path to follow. Soon after, you launched into claiming Mormons and religion in general to be both crazy and driven solely for financial gain. In between, you mocked the Mormons you met and their referral to each other as Elders. It is the term which they use-nobody is forcing you to use it if it offends you. Similarly, nobody is forcing you to join their Church. The Mormons/Latter Day Saints are but one of many groups that reach out to others. In fairness, all religions do this in some way. Religions however are not alone in this. Sports teams reach out for members, fraternities of various schools and other organizations reach out-this is part of life on Earth. Through it all (as adults), we have the choice of joining or not. If I do not agree with a particular religion or group, I indicate where my disagreement is lodged and if the other party is open-minded, a dialogue takes place; during which, we hopefully learn from each other. By dismissing with mockery, you have closed off possibility, thus you have accrued a loss in your debit column of life.

There are areas of The Latter Day Saints doctrines and practices with which I do not agree-this is how I feel about most organized groups and it is a part of being human. Part of what we were given, in addition to choice, is an ability to think open-mindedly which in turn offers us the opportunity of making a choice of following a route which will make us most comfortable-without endangering others. If I find something which seems contradictory to what they profess to be in their tenets, as is true with any religion, group or person, I will state my reasons and await the feedback. I will not however decide that it is my right to ridicule what has given peace to so many and has brought forth people who have done good for the world.

What I meant was that I don't think Mormons should be driven out of town. I don't think they should be discriminated against for their crazy beliefs. If they want to have crazy beliefs, let them. And if I want to say their beliefs are crazy, I can.

Consider that I was mocking them all you want. I wasn't. I tried to address them as individuals, but had to come to accept that they will not allow this. As someone posted in this thread, these "Elders" are not even supposed to give their first names.

Come to think of it, I think that this is what I dislike most about the religion: they do not allow for individuality at all. They create pods.

I don't think Mormons should be discriminated against for being Mormon. If they want to be Mormon, they can. But I still have a right to say what I think.

Oh, and no shit, Sherlock. My relative made a decision. Um. Thanks for explaining that. I hadn't realize that's what it was. I thought it was an ashtray he made. By the way ... you have no idea why he made this decision. He made it for the same reason he made the decision to join other churches in the past: material help.

Yes, religion is mostly founded on money. Ever notice how every church service you attend has a basket passed around? I'm reminded of something George Carlin once said: "God is all-powerful, all-know, just not really good with money. He needs your money, now, and lots of it...."

 

[B_henry miller]

I don't think the Mormon faith is any more or less bizarre than the christian belief in virgin births, glorious "RAPTURES" (a rapturous Second Coming), or a talking snake tempting a woman in the Garden of Eden.

Mormons believe when you die you get to (essentially) become your own god and rule your own planet, right?

I knew a couple mormons in high school in San Diego. They were quiet, handsome, unassuming decent guys. Both become missionaries for their faith.

Speaking of gay mormons (for any gay or bisexual mormons out there): Both movies "Latter Days" and the HBO film "Angels in America" prominently feature gay mormons. (Mary Kay Place plays the mother of one one these mormons - a terrific, intense performance! - and Meryl Streep place the mother of the other). Each film is interesting & worth checking out.

Of course. All religions have these absolutely insane leaps of faith you are supposed to take. The Mormons aren't alone in this at all. It's just that their "missionaries" seem particularly robotic and strange. They're people seem particularly indoctrinated and without personality. And their dogma is so space age and science fiction. All I can figure is that they must have some intense indoctrination sessions. Also, that whole thing about tracing ancestry, and the way they use it, creeps me out.

 

[_avg_]

Religions are like assholes; they all suck.

 

[B_Monster]

There is a grass roots movement to cause the morman cult to lose its tax exempt status because of their involvement in Prop 8 in Calif, hopefully this will happen or at least send a message that churches cant do this.

 

[B_henry miller]

Oh, another thing I don't like about the Mormon religion: don't they teach that the Native Americans are descendants of a lost tribe of, um, someone? Don't they teach that this is why they are red, because they are a damned group of people? Don't they teach a similar thing about Africans being black? I think there are a lot of weird beliefs there.

 

[D_Ireonsyd_Colonrinse]

henry miller:

I'll tell you again, I don't think Mormons are any more or less bizarre than christians. Especially evangelical creationist christians who believe that the earth is between 6 and 10 thousand years old -- and that the earth was created in 6 days. Apparently, going through the first five books of the old testament (the Torah), these creationists made charts and graphs of who begat whom -- and, counting backwards, decided that the earth began on a certain date.

Never mind dinosaurs! and carbon dating & a 5-billion-year-old earth proposed by modern scientists! "Young earth creationists" have incorporated modern science (somewhat) into their theories, and believe that Adam and Eve co-habitated with all varieties of dinosaurs in the Garden of Eden (Kentucky's Creation Museum, constructed at a cost of $27 million, portrays tableaux of Adam & Eve frollicking in the Garden with a triceratops and a stegosaurus).

This theory is every bit as bizarre as the mormon's magic underwear.

 

[B_dxjnorto]

Oh, another thing I don't like about the Mormon religion: don't they teach that the Native Americans are descendants of a lost tribe of, um, someone? Don't they teach that this is why they are red, because they are a damned group of people? Don't they teach a similar thing about Africans being black? I think there are a lot of weird beliefs there.

The best source is always someone who is a member of the religion you are curious about. Ask the missionaries your questions the next time you see them.

 

[Freddie53]

Religions are like assholes; they all suck.

yeah, but, there are some assholes I like to suck.:tongue:

 

[B_henry miller]

The best source is always someone who is a member of the religion you are curious about. Ask the missionaries your questions the next time you see them.

Oh, that's like pulling teeth. It's very hard to get a straight answer out of them. I asked one of the missionaries, "So, do you guys get to choose where you go for your missions?" And his response was: "We are missionaries because we believe in the gospells." Um. Okay.

 

[B_henry miller]

henry miller:

I'll tell you again, I don't think Mormons are any more or less bizarre than christians.

Well, okay. Tell me again if you feel you must.

I agree that all religions have their bizarre beliefs. But anything to do with owning a planet after you die is taking it just a little further for me.

 

[B_henry miller]

Blacks and The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[kalipygian]

Blacks and The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Bizarrely Orwellian.