OK, going to try to post a semi coherent thought, lol I am really ambivalent regarding the efficacy of the open relationship as it pertains to me. It has worked for me in the past. But other times it has ruined everything.
FP said as much in her post
It has helped our relationship.. I've seen it destroy others.
Probably repeating but to have an open relationship, IMO, you'd have to be extremely secure in your current relationship, jealousy must not exist (it will wreck even the best relationships), and you should be confident and trusting, open and honest at all times.
There should be good ground rules and both parties must honor the rules. There must also be benefits for both partners.
I kinda have to disagree with AM on this subject. But as I said, it is my opinion, and my experiences only.
(I'd hesitate to say that I am "not good at sex" nor am I unhappy with my husband. This is not a lifestyle for us...it is a sex-quest) Maybe that makes a difference. I am not sure.
I think the ground rules, and indeed the getting to that point either on the outset or after some serious discussion and time together, is the only way t even hope to make it work. So if it is dating and then open relationship, I have no qualms; the relationship was never closed, so y expectations are different. If we start as a closed or go from open to closed (and in that case at the other party's desire and with much "you are everything t me, how could I want more" form them), and then they decide, out of the blue, to tell me they want to fool around with other people (and there was no lead up, no sharing of fantasies, nada) then I do have a serious problem with that.
In those circumstances I feel as AM does, that I am not enough, that I wasn't The One, and THAT is when I get hurt and it physically makes me ill that they don't see me as such. That's what I was trying to say when I said I didn't agree with AM on a rational level; I meant it as, rationally I know that sex and love are not always connected, but emotionally I agree with him, in the fact that, once I am in love, and with someone in a monogamous way, the two seem inseparable, and a desire by the other partner to play is prceived as a "wow, I guess I just don't do it for you."
Hell i would rather find out that the cheated and have a clean break then have them espouse how much they love me, and this is only for the sex, cuz then I REALLY feel that I am lacking. Hell if you cheated maybe you found a more emotionally compatible person. I get that. I'm pissed, but it happens. But if you stress that you are just not satisfied with me sexually, well, that stings. Then I just feel as though I am some convenient stop gap. I am there to soothe you till you find my replacement. Not a good feeling. Because if I am not doing it for you sexually, how long till you decide that I am not enough emotionally? It always feels like waiting for the other shoe to drop. Ugh.:frown1:
Now there is an exception to this and FP hits on it:
I totally understand AM and Nico's responses. I respect and appreciate them. In fact for over 20 (ahem... something) years totally believed the same way.
As for my husband? He is perfect... absolutely perfect. I never, ever considered
the fantasies that we had for all those years would ever turn into a reality game for us. But we have reached a point in our lives where we have
absolute truth, honesty and security with one another. "The Game" was HIS idea... not mine.. I know it is difficult for many men (and women) to understand this. But some men really do get off on knowing that other guys are sexually attracted to their wives... to the point that they want to have sex and sex only. I do not get emotionally involved (so yes, that does change the whole... "doing it for the relationship" point of view.)
When The Game started, my husband noticed that sex with a LP guy generates a different effect on me. It has only been two years... and I do not see my self doing this for very much longer. It was totally an experiment, it has brought the two of us closer together (didn't think it was possible but it is). It has given me much more self-confidence. I dress differently, I walk differently, I hold myself up and am damn proud of being tall... All of this as a result of The Game. (I also like to think that I am giving some younger men some really good experience that will improve future relationships for them.)
Now, to CG's question: "Can anyone else explain why is it so painful for you if your SO is sexual with someone else?"
Obviously, it does not cause my husband pain... because he knows all the details. He knows who, what, when, where, and why. (He finds out the "how" later.)
I think it causes pain when someone is dishonest about their feelings. That hurts. I have never been dishonest with my husband about sex (or any other major issue). Dishonesty causes pain, and distrust, and breaks relationships.
I totally understand how AM and Nico feel about needing to be top of the totem pole. But I didn't enter the relationship with my husband because the sex was out of this world. I entered the relationship because he was and is and always will be... my very best friend. I love him and love encompasses much more than sex. So... sex with him is really really good and for many years, I could not imagine anything any different. I won't say it is better... it is different. It is not better b/c there are no emotions involved. There is fire and excitement, yes, but not an emotional attachment.
This has been a very good discussion and I really appreciate hearing other points of view.
See, there was a long time of sharing of fantasies, so it wasn't out of the blue. There was years of trust, and respect. The fact that it was his idea, not for HIM to play around but HER is very soothing. Like...HE is the one who has most to loose, but he is willing to go there in an effort to increase BOTH there pleasures. SO his voicing the idea would not, if I was FP, cause me any discomfort.
It would work with me if the one initiating the idea wanted it for both, but then I would need the stipulation that we play as a couple, most definitely at the start, and possibly always.
I also have a quirk in that I don't bat an eye if the person i am dating is bi and they want to fool around with members of the opposite sex. I am totally fine with that. Indeed i have that now. I feel no threat or have feelings of i am less than as I feel he is getting something I cannot provide but I can give hi things they women can't. It is other guys that are problematic, as they are seen as direct competition for the spot I hold in his heart and life.
After two years we started conversation about adding a third guy. 2 1/2 years he broached the idea if it being his best friend, who is the only person he is out too. Now initially it was just to have someone film us, but then we played with the possibility of N joining us if he wished. N is not self identified as gay or bi, but is curious. Then it was N wanted to be with a TS girl (to fulfill his fantasy) and the four of us be in the same room, and if play happened between the members, that was cool. I was fine with all of this.
At one point, a few months back, however, the subject of it just being us three (L and e having sex, N maybe joining in, to whatever extent he wished) was broached, ad that...well I wasn't kosher with that. See, L and N have been friends forever. There is a definite love there. They have had threesomes of the MFM variety with each other before, and I was not sure how deep L's feelings for N ran. I voiced my concern and L agreed that we should table it for now (I wasn't against revisiting the notion, but had some stipulations).
About two months ago I was sought out by a former FB who i had intense feelings for at one point. L said to go for it, but i was hesitant. I spoke with some of you about that and if you want to identify yourselves you can) and it was pointed out that I should not do it as the feelings I once had may still be there. I agreed and declined the invitation.
This last time spent with L, we had the chance to discuss many things, one being the possible opening of the relationship with other guys. He is fine with me having sex with other guys. He doesn't want me to be without. He has the one girl he has sex with occasionally, and they cohabitate, so he has the camaraderie and such as well on a daily basis. He feels bad I don't have the same. I am a hermit by nature, so I could care less, though it is nice having the option.
Prior to our big official convo, but after I had the initial go ahead from him, I gave it a try, and other than 2 instances (both oral, with the same dude) I haven't invoked that option. truth to tell, though the sex was good with the other dude, it wasn't anything like what L and I have. That underlying spark of emotion that fire that just consumes me when I am with L, wasn't there. Of course, that is a good thing. i don't WANT that. But that is also why i am hesitant about N joining us, and will not play with the one guy I used to have feelings for.
As of now, we agree that, for play with other dudes, it will ONLY be together. The pay with another guy was ok, but all I could keep thinking of, was how much I wanted L to be there with me. I asked L if he wanted to play solo, and he said that he really did not. We are now thinking of only playing with other partners, as both of us do not want that awkward third wheel thing happening. If we bring in a third, it would have to be someone very special indeed. We would either have to truly have no feelings at ALL for them, or both be in love with them.
Hope this clears up my initial thoughts on the matter.