suicide solution?
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The point I'm trying to make, is that killing yourself because you're depressed is selfish. It's a permanent solution to a temporary problem. If someone were terminal, and had, let's say, cancer, and they wanted to end their life on their own, I wouldn't blame them. And I wouldn't be angry for them. But if you consider the circumstances in which my brother committed suicide, he was very selfish in doing so, by thinking only about himself and no one else.
I get scared everytime I hear this.
Especially when people say they feel that people who commit suicide are brave. I fear for your life. To say something like you have to feel like you have no value, no self worth. That is not true. You never know how much you mean to the person beside you. And you will never know unless you express how you're feeling to those around you.
Who is going to be hurt? Your friends? If not your friends, then your family. They care about you. If they didn't they'd have dropped you a long time ago. Death causes the greatest pain. It's permanent loss. People will lose you forever.
I know you can feel like they are being selfish to want you alive, but in actually you would be the one being selfish because you are trying to take yourself away from them.
It's kind of hard to hear people say that I don't know what it feels like, but I do. Try having a brain that makes decisions based on mathematical equations and balancing said equations. In my mind, when something is making a formula unbalanced, you remove it...in order to balance the equation.
There have been many a time in my life where I felt like I was that anomaly that threw the equation off. What was my solution? Remove myself. But before I do anything stupid, I've decided it's best to remove myself temporarily from people. I become a recluse and sort out my problems, think about what is hurting me...what is causing my confusion...what is causing me to feel so down. When I find out what it is, I can deal with it, cope with it, and then get over it.
There's ALWAYS another way. I'll even admit that what I do is very unhealthy. I should talk it out with other people more. But if you don't have a coping strategy for your problems you should ALWAYS seek someone else out to help you. If you were meant to be totally alone on the world, you'd be the only one who existed. Other people exist for a reason.
I'm impressed by your post, my friend. This world's biggest and ugliest problem = lack of compassion
Mental illness is just considered to an be "excuse", a "way out of working", or a "cry for sympathy", or a combination all three. Society is uncivilized with regards to its attitudes toward mental illness and mentally ill persons.
Pointing fingers is ugly. Condemning those who can't help themselves is ugly. It's again - uncivilized.
Acting tough is foolish? Why? Because every single one of us will inevitably feel intense emotional pain (should we live long enough). It's inescapable.
No, I've never considered or attempted suicide. But, I do my best to understand the human condition. I want to understand. I want to understand other's pain. I have my own pain share of pain.
Peace:smile:
hairyman101
Admired Member
What if it was only you??? i had no brothers or sisters and now that my parents are 89....it is just ME. suicide would not be selfish then......and i have had friends but they all used me....got rid of them. im pretty much alone. after my parents die.....i will be alone. :sad2:
B_ScaredLittleBoy
Experimental Member
I have thought about it but never seriously considered it. I'm too pretty to die :tongue: lol.
And by saying I have thought of it, probably only twice.
I have heard about anti depressants making things worse (increasing/creating suicidal thoughts and even inducing the action). I was on Citalopram for all of two weeks. Didn't really have an affect on me, except I couldn't cum (but I could get ROCK hard).
Someone I know commited suicide. He was only 23 (I was 15 at the time, he was a friend of the family). He killed himself because he was addicted to drugs and couldn't live with himself and felt he'd let his parents down. He was having hallucinations and things too. It's a shame because he was a great guy and he had the most loving family. If he would have said something, he would have had an army of people coming to his aid.
I hope anyone feeling so low feels better and realises there will be better days. Look forward, not backwards, up, not down, to the light and not to the darkness. :smile:
No one can MAKE you feel bad. Only your own thoughts can do that. If you see the sunshine instead of the rain, positive instead of negative you'll feel a lot better. There is a proverb:
The obstacle is the path.
And by saying I have thought of it, probably only twice.
I have heard about anti depressants making things worse (increasing/creating suicidal thoughts and even inducing the action). I was on Citalopram for all of two weeks. Didn't really have an affect on me, except I couldn't cum (but I could get ROCK hard).
Someone I know commited suicide. He was only 23 (I was 15 at the time, he was a friend of the family). He killed himself because he was addicted to drugs and couldn't live with himself and felt he'd let his parents down. He was having hallucinations and things too. It's a shame because he was a great guy and he had the most loving family. If he would have said something, he would have had an army of people coming to his aid.
I hope anyone feeling so low feels better and realises there will be better days. Look forward, not backwards, up, not down, to the light and not to the darkness. :smile:
No one can MAKE you feel bad. Only your own thoughts can do that. If you see the sunshine instead of the rain, positive instead of negative you'll feel a lot better. There is a proverb:
The obstacle is the path.
Your brother was long gone by the time that happened Meg. His spirit, his love for you, his reason were eaten away. Some people can recover from that state but many can't. They see some improvement in the disease whether because of drugs or therapy but then they slip back a bit because recovery isn't a perfectly straight line from the bottom up. It's that slip back into nothingness that kills you. The horror of becoming an empty shell again is just too much and then your brain literally tells you that it's time to die to escape it. There's no control over it, it's not a cry for help. I'd be dead if a delivery person I had no idea was coming hadn't happened upon me.
In its final stages everything goes away, any sensation of being alive ceases. Death just seems so eminently sensible, the next logical, the only next step to take.
And that's the rationale of someone who isn't in their right mind.
I can understand your anger because being someone with major depression means, naturally, that you know other people with major depression and some of them will die from it. Before it happened to me, I was angry at the one girl I had ever loved for killing herself. Now I too know what she went through and I have no anger or blame. It's like blaming someone for dying of cancer. You fight as hard as you can. Some win, some lose.
I hesitate to say this because it's extremely close to part of myself I don't like to reveal, but at that point, suicide is actually selfless in the mind of those who reach that point. They see themselves as a burden, someone causing concern and tension in their home, not contributing to life in any way, taking-up space and resources better spent on someone else. You know you're supposed to love some people but the disease convinces you that they'll carry on much more happily without you. By dying you're doing them a favor. It's a slow and agonizing death which suicide only completes with as much importance as a period at the end of book.
If this wasn't true, I wouldn't say it. It's horrible to say and think but it IS true. Suicides kill themselves as much for themselves as for everyone else because that's how the disease makes the brain rationalize the act.
He wasn't selfish Meg, the disease was. It took him as surely as Alzheimer's or cancer did. His mind that you knew and loved wasn't there. That died sometime before his body did and where and when that occured it's hard to tell.
I truly hope you can see past your anger to understand what I'm saying here. I'm taking a big risk by talking about all this here because it's admitting things that probably shouldn't be talked about until after you know someone well and you, Meg, are the only person here who knows who that someone is, but I can't imagine you living with such anger for someone so close when all I want to do is to convey to you that he was taken by a disease that killed his soul before it killed his body. The man (or boy) that killed himself wasn't your brother when that happened. I beg you to understand that despite how horrible it sounds. It's a miracle I'm still alive and able to tell you this and I urge you to learn from what I went through. It's why I keep emphasizing how misunderstood depression is.
Your brother loved you. The shell that physically died did not.
In its final stages everything goes away, any sensation of being alive ceases. Death just seems so eminently sensible, the next logical, the only next step to take.
And that's the rationale of someone who isn't in their right mind.
I can understand your anger because being someone with major depression means, naturally, that you know other people with major depression and some of them will die from it. Before it happened to me, I was angry at the one girl I had ever loved for killing herself. Now I too know what she went through and I have no anger or blame. It's like blaming someone for dying of cancer. You fight as hard as you can. Some win, some lose.
I hesitate to say this because it's extremely close to part of myself I don't like to reveal, but at that point, suicide is actually selfless in the mind of those who reach that point. They see themselves as a burden, someone causing concern and tension in their home, not contributing to life in any way, taking-up space and resources better spent on someone else. You know you're supposed to love some people but the disease convinces you that they'll carry on much more happily without you. By dying you're doing them a favor. It's a slow and agonizing death which suicide only completes with as much importance as a period at the end of book.
If this wasn't true, I wouldn't say it. It's horrible to say and think but it IS true. Suicides kill themselves as much for themselves as for everyone else because that's how the disease makes the brain rationalize the act.
He wasn't selfish Meg, the disease was. It took him as surely as Alzheimer's or cancer did. His mind that you knew and loved wasn't there. That died sometime before his body did and where and when that occured it's hard to tell.
I truly hope you can see past your anger to understand what I'm saying here. I'm taking a big risk by talking about all this here because it's admitting things that probably shouldn't be talked about until after you know someone well and you, Meg, are the only person here who knows who that someone is, but I can't imagine you living with such anger for someone so close when all I want to do is to convey to you that he was taken by a disease that killed his soul before it killed his body. The man (or boy) that killed himself wasn't your brother when that happened. I beg you to understand that despite how horrible it sounds. It's a miracle I'm still alive and able to tell you this and I urge you to learn from what I went through. It's why I keep emphasizing how misunderstood depression is.
Your brother loved you. The shell that physically died did not.
You, my friend, need help. You are seriously depressed. But wallowing in your depression is not going to make it better. What do you mean by "your friends all used me"? Is there any chance you misunderstood their intentions?
Please, for your own sake, talk to someone.
Only a fool would say that committing suicide is a selfish act.
An enlightened person knows that those who commit suicide were in a helpless state. They did nothing wrong. Their depression took over. It's no one's fault. If anyone is to blame for suicides, it's society. We refuse to acknowledge the reality and severity of mental illness, pushing potential sufferers deeper into despair.
An enlightened person knows that those who commit suicide were in a helpless state. They did nothing wrong. Their depression took over. It's no one's fault. If anyone is to blame for suicides, it's society. We refuse to acknowledge the reality and severity of mental illness, pushing potential sufferers deeper into despair.
- Eva,
I hate this cliche even more than people telling me to "cheer up" when I'm depressed.
I was diagnosed with Severe Chronic Depression. It's a condition in which my brain doesn't filter seratonin like a regular one would. The word "chronic" should imply that it's not a temporary problem.
To even call a depressive episode a "problem" is trivialising the nature of the very disease. This one sentence is more condescending to me than just about anything else. It's not like it's the alternative people turn to at the drop of a hat. By the time suicide is considered as a viable and serious option, don't you think that just about every other option has been exhausted by the person who wants to die?
I understand what the sentiment is trying to convey, but whomever first said these words has never felt the void that depression creates and cannot possibly understand what drives suicidal thoughts due to depression. I hate that it's become a catch-phrase now. It's like a slap in the face to everyone who cannot simply "pull themselves up by their bootstraps."
(Meg, this isn't directed at you--just in general about that stupid phrase.)
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScaredLittleBoy
No one can MAKE you feel bad. Only your own thoughts can do that. If you see the sunshine instead of the rain, positive instead of negative you'll feel a lot better.
I wish it were that simple.
That's for sure snoozan. It's very easy to tell someone else this "feel good stuff".
No malice toward you at all SLB. I just don't think you or any of the others that have posted similar comments have ever faced true depression. Until you do you cannot understand. I sincerely hope you never have to face it...:smile:
Originally Posted by ScaredLittleBoy
No one can MAKE you feel bad. Only your own thoughts can do that. If you see the sunshine instead of the rain, positive instead of negative you'll feel a lot better.
I wish it were that simple.
That's for sure snoozan. It's very easy to tell someone else this "feel good stuff".
No malice toward you at all SLB. I just don't think you or any of the others that have posted similar comments have ever faced true depression. Until you do you cannot understand. I sincerely hope you never have to face it...:smile:
I do think sometimes what the world would be like without me and always come to the conclusion that I did somebody somewhere some good by staying on the planet. I've had episodes when my life was rough and unbearable as a youth and young adult but never really thought of how I would end it. I think I'd be too chicken shit to ever carry out a suicide anyways, not a big fan of pain.
My neighbor killed herself a number of years ago and I still wonder why she did it. Her death still haunts me. She ostensibly had everything going for her but I suppose no one really can understand another's personal agony or pain. I can hear people now when they cry out for help in silence. I understand that nobody ever lies about being lonely or wanting to die.
My neighbor killed herself a number of years ago and I still wonder why she did it. Her death still haunts me. She ostensibly had everything going for her but I suppose no one really can understand another's personal agony or pain. I can hear people now when they cry out for help in silence. I understand that nobody ever lies about being lonely or wanting to die.
This is an important point. The beginning of my last mood episode happened when I had everything going for me and at a point in my life when I was pretty happy. I had a great husband, a nice house, a good job, and a baby on the way. Life was good. Things were going exactly as planned. I was literally fine one day and woke up the next shaking, crying, buzzing, and unable to stop the swirling awful thoughts in my head. From what we can tell, it happened not because of some external event but because of the hormonal changes that happen in early pregnancy along with very large doses of progesterone that I was taking at the adivce of my OB since we'd had some fertility problems. Suicide is a huge surprise many times because the disease that causes suicide is capricious. No one is safe from mental illness, and there's no really good way of predicting who or when it will strike.
Snoozan, it's actually a complete suprise to me that you suffer from bi-polar disorder as you always come across so upbeat and full of life in your posts. I wonder if you post here when you are feeling blue. You certainly do not come across as such in your writing. I'm glad you are here by the way.
This is true. I honestly have no personal experience of any depressing feelings that last more than a day or so.
It also seems to me unusual and possibly counterproductive to take 'happy pills' to try to relieve what I believe is a state of mind. But obviously I'm not in the best position to comment about that.
I'd like to hear more about people's experience of depression. How bad is it?
A friend of mine who works in mental health told me that if you can reach the age of 30-35 without any signs of mental illness then it's extremely unlikely to affect you ever.
Thank you (I think), but I don't know that most people agree that I'm very upbeat or nice all the time. However, I think someone else mentioned this-- people who are mentally ill are excellent at not showing how sick they are or that anything is wrong. Mental illness is not well understood and being treated as though you're lazy, weak, or just plain nuts makes things worse, so we get good at pretending to be okay. I'd rather hold my shit together, smile, and laugh as if I was feeling fine than have my mother in law tell me one more time to suck it up. The other thing is, we're not always sick, and if we are, it's not always incapacitating. Sometimes it's not there, sometimes it's a background noise, and there are levels of severity all the way up to incapacitation that we experience at different times.
Anyway, thanks again.
jason_els has written some incredibly descriptive, eloquent posts in this thread that could help you understand the devastation that mental illness causes. it can get really bad, which is why those of us who've suffered a severe mood episode can empathize with people who commit suicide. none of us take that subject lightly-- it is something that has been too close and too understandable. even looking back it is very hard to remember the incredible torture every minute of every day was when i was at my very worst. imagine being in chronic, unremitting, severe pain 24/7 to the point where you can think of nothing else but how you hurt, no matter what you try to do.
Not really. A lot of people may have had subclinical episodes before and/or it was never diagnosed, but even if not it's pretty common that someone has their first mood episode later in life. My mother is one example, and I could rattle off a laundry list of names that make that seem unlikely.
What your friend may be referring to are things like bipolar I disorder, schizoaffective disorder, and schizophrenia. Schizophrenia particularly seems to have an age cutoff like you're describing. Clinical depression seems to not discriminate based on age. A lot of women have their first severe episodes when they reach menopause.
I still know a good number of people who were diagnosed with, say, bipolar disorder late in life. On looking back, one may see that a pattern resembling bipolar disorder was there, but it wasn't crippling enough for them to see treatment for it. A lot of people either don't understand what's happening or simply try to ignore it until it goes away. There comes a point, however, where this becomes impossible.
Still, I maintain that it's very common, especially with clinical depression, to have a first episode later in life.
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