superficial dissatisfaction

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dolfette said:
no it's not selfish for him to want/need it.
but it's not selfish of her to lose her sex drive.
neither of them are selfish or to blame.
who says she does not want to maintain the bond? you think her having sex she really isn't wanting will strengthen her bond to him?
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No, I think that if she doesn't want to strengthen the bond, then she is leading him on and just staying with him "for the kids".... which is a rather emotionally cruel thing to do.

Losing the sex drive is a symptom of something else. Address the problem, not the symptom.
 
I have to say I agree with dolfette on every point. No one is bashing anyone. Not him - of course he needs sex, and no matter what she may be saying, it is likely making his wife feel even more inadequate that she just can't do it right now. I doubt this is how the next 30 or 40 years are going to be like - most of the time, this is a phase that passes. A really tough phase, but a phase nonetheless.

Communication is key. Honest, loving, communication. No accusing. Use "I" statements. Never say "you always" or "you never". See a doctor and make sure she's healthy. Need a therapist? Research someone good online. Read Amazon.com: Passionate Marriage: Keeping Love and Intimacy Alive in Committed Relationships (9780393334272): David Schnarch: Books and see if your wife is interested in reading it. It's an incredible book. Marriage is hard. Really hard. And this is part of it. Give it all you got - you both deserve the best that you have to give.
 
snbk said:
also, ask her to please defend you to her friends and don't make flippant statements that are demasculating.
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Snbk, you make some good common-sense suggestions. However I don't recall any 'demasculating' comments by the wife. Her only public statement about the OP is that she believes he would never cheat!

Too many of the responses are losing sight of my point about the improper focus on vaginal sex as the only 'real' sex. There are far too many fun ways for men and women to achieve orgasm without it for me to ignore.
 
As someone that has been there and is still mucking through a similar situation, I feel your pain.

My sex drive took a dive off the face of the earth for the first 5 years of my son's life. It wasn't until he started going to school and didn't need my attention 24/7 that my sex drive started coming back.

A couple of years later I ended up with medical issues that created physical difficulties so my husband stopped touching me. It took a real toll on our relationship for a long time because these medical issues were a mystery to the doctors and I had no real diagnosis, therefore no solid means of managing my symptoms. It wasn't until I finally got a diagnosis 3 years later (a heart problem) that things got better. I was put on heart meds and my husband didn't have to be afraid to touch me anymore, but he still wasn't touching me.

Six months after my diagnosis I ended up with gynecological problems that resulted in a cancer diagnosis and hysterectomy. Even after I was well into healing, he did not want sex. He told me he had no interest whatsoever and I felt like the world fell out from under me. I can't go the rest of my life without sex. It's my personal playground where I work out all my joys and pains, it's not possible to have a life without intimacy.

I asked him to be checked out by the doctor to rule out any problems with low testosterone or possibly something more serious. Just yesterday he came home with a prescription for Viagra. I asked him why, as he didn't seem to have a problem getting erections on the rare occasion we did have sex, but he finally confided in me that he was having erection problems, even while flying solo. I was surprised, but glad he told me. While I am still concerned over the sex issues, I'm more concerned about his health. If he isn't healthy not all of the sex in the world is going to matter.

The reason I'm telling you this story is it sounds like you love your wife. Your libido and your love for your wife are warring with each other and I've been walking that road too. There are many times I felt I was going to break and I'm sure there are times I will feel like that up the road. The point is that if you feel your partner is worth the wait, do it. She herself may not even realize herself how much her sex drive has decreased. It's possible that she has some post-partum depression going on, also. Some women do an excellent job of hiding their sadness and women with multiple children that are so young are at higher risk for this.

So please take the advice from those who answered before me about talking to her. Your wife sounds like an amazing woman that needs some patience and understanding. She is raising your children and if she's even half the woman you described her to be she is worth the effort. Do you ever just spend time in bed at the end of the day and talk about how both of your days were? I know that when my husband and I do that I feel very close to him and 99% of the time I end up initiating sex. It may not be that way for all women but for me personally that intimacy drives my need to express my love physically.

Good luck on your marital issues. I hope you will keep us posted, I'm very much hoping you two can communicate and make things work out. It sounds like you have a wonderful family, it would be a shame to lose all that over an extramarital affair. Remember, a bell can never be unrung.
 
helgaleena said:
Snbk, you make some good common-sense suggestions. However I don't recall any 'demasculating' comments by the wife. Her only public statement about the OP is that she believes he would never cheat!

Too many of the responses are losing sight of my point about the improper focus on vaginal sex as the only 'real' sex. There are far too many fun ways for men and women to achieve orgasm without it for me to ignore.
Click to expand...

Thank you for pointing this out, Helga. Post-hysterectomy I had a lot of vaginal pain, numbness, sensitivity. It made intercourse very unpleasant so my husband and had oral and manual stimulation instead. Sex is way more than penetration!
 
BBW36, you sound like a pretty cool wife that cares about your family. Your husband is lucky to have you.

LaFemme mentions communication. She's absolutely right. The problem is that, once again, it has to be both ways. It sounds like his wife has just decided that she's not interested in sex. You can't hold out for 3 months, not tell him why you don't want sex, break down and cry a couple times a year when he brings it up and not change anything, and expect that he's going to be happy with the situation. He sounds like a caring guy. If it was explained that she is exhausted much of the time, or simply has no desire to have sex, or it hurts (for whatever reason), and that she cares about him and his desires and his needs to be intimate with her, I think he would understand. It doesn't sound like she's done any of that. (littledumdum, if I'm wrong, please correct me.)

dolfette is absolutely right about mother nature limiting the size of the brood, so that she can provide adequately for the ones she has. I see where this fails in my job; moms are selfish and pump out half a dozen kids in 8 years, each from a different daddy, and leave the state to care for them. However, in being selfless for her children, she also needs to be selfless for her husband (somewhat). And I don't mean just putting out when he wants it, but acting like his mate and partner and addressing the issues.

A hormone imbalance was also mentioned. I work in the medical field and firmly believe in medicine. She has to want to be treated for it, though. I've read from other posters that said their wives had no interest in seeing a physician to make sure that the problem wasn't physical. I'm suspecting that she may balk.

dolfette, you make many intelligent posts. However, your first post about him only doing stuff to get something from her came across to me as talking about him like a typical man who only wants one thing. I'm guessing that's not what you intended, but that's how I read it. He shouldn't be made to feel bad for trying to lighten her work load and treat her well, hell even pamper her, in the hopes that she will want to be intimate with him. What else is he supposed to do? He's tried everything else, including talking it out, and isn't getting anywhere. My point was that if he wasn't helping her out, by cleaning the bathroom or whatever else he's doing around the house (apart from his full time job) there are other people that WOULD bash him because she's raising 2 kids and he's not helping her. He'd be wrong in someone's eyes, no matter what he did.

dolfette, it IS selfish of her to lose her sex drive and not want be at all interested in some type of a solution, or to even talk about it. You can't treat your partner that way and expect them to stay around and happy. It breeds contempt.

snbk, you make some very good suggestions. I hope they can use them.

helgaleena, the wife and her friends were talking about not giving sex to their spouses. Since he's not getting any, and her comment is that he wouldn't cheat, it IS demasculating, since she's portraying that she has him where she wants him. He works and provides, he's too loyal to cheat, and because of that, she doesn't have to put out and there are no consequences! His options are to put up with it her way, no matter what he wants, or to be a cheater. That actually doesn't show very much respect for him, in front of her friends.

Marraige is hard. No one realizes that until they are in it. It takes work, every day, on both parts. It sounds like he's trying everything he can, but she needs to at least make a little effort in the relationship.

Good luck, I really hope you can work this out.
 
doll, it was the OP himself who described doing those things as trying every trick in the book. i didn't say he was wrong for trying to put her in the mood. i told him that if she knows that's what he's doing it'll put her off. it might sound mean to point that out, but it's not as mean as not pointing it out.

losing one's sex drive can actually be a highly traumatic event. it can damage self esteem and cause emotional damage. it might not be selfless to avoid the issue, but it's understandable. the issue requires a vast amount of tact, more listening than talking, and a non-judgemental attitude throughout. she might not even have the words to explain.

it's if he tries seeing her point of view, being sensitive to her issues, taking the heat off, and finds that she's still not willing to budge that it's fair to assume she's just selfish.
 
dolfette said:
incidentally, i have the same sympathy when men lose all drive too. it happens. it generally makes the sufferer male or female, feel guilty and inadequate.
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Dolfette, it sounds like he HAD been sympathetic & wanted to give her time to recover after that first traumatic childbirth. He's been going out of his way to make her feel comfortable & desirable. He was as patient & forgiving as a man can be. He didn't put pressure on her to perform on cue like a robot. He appreciates all of her qualities as a woman, as a mother, as a friend...

He just wants his wife. That's commendable! Especially after 7 years into the marriage!

It's time we stop looking at women as helpless children.
She's an adult. And married adults have a DUTY to share affection with their spouses.
She's shirking her responsibility as a lover to her husband.

He IS sympathetic & patient. He understands her guilt & has gone around the world & back again to wait for her to rekindle the spark. She doesn't seem to think it's as important.

He wants to maintain his life with this woman. Many men would have cheated on her by now. He wants to make it work with his wife.
But if she doesn't want to do it, then they're just glorified roommates splitting the rent.

When women act like this it's either biological problems, mental stress, or she's sexing someone else & her sex drive is drained.
It IS time for ultimatum. Does she want him or not?

He's done enough. It's time for her to start doing something. The onus is not all on the man. She has responsibility in this too.

I would say exactly the same if the genders were reversed.
Sexual connection is not incidental to a "romantic" relationship, it is CENTRAL.
A final decision is going to have to made here soon, one way or another.
John Lucas
 
i roll my eyes in your general direction.

you think you're right, i think i'm right.
my thinking i'm right obviously carries more weight for me.
 
I can't imagine being horny with two small children. When a friend of mine was mentally ill, the state gave her children to her mother, who was incompetent, self-centered, and wanted the credit for being a good grandmother, but didn't want to do any work. I worked at night, so, during the day, I took the children. I fed them breakfast and lunch, found educational activities for us to do together, cleaned up their messes, and then brought them to the home of their aunt and uncle for a family supper. Once we got them registered in school, it was much easier. All I had to do was pick them up, and hang out with them for an hour or so while their aunt studied for the bar exam, and their uncle came home. I'd usually get out of their house before supper (felt weird having them feed me supper all the time). When their mother was cleared to have custody again, I was a constant presence at first, helping her re-adjust to life with a young family. I backed off until she met a man she started bringing around. Once I was sure he was okay, I offered to babysit a few times a month so they could go out.

I really had not even imagined how much harder it is to care for children 60 hours a week as opposed to just babysitting them for an evening. They were six and four at the time. I only had them all day for about a month, but it killed my drive. After they were gone, it didn't come back right away, either. I was so worried about them. I don't think I started having really regular sex again until that dude moved into their house and I saw how much they all loved each other.

Those aren't even my children. I don't have any hormonal response to caring for them. I bet my husband will be jerking off for a good six years when we have babies. It's not forever, but small children are exhausting, and sources of ceaseless worry.
 
I haven't gone through all the responses, but I just wanted to mention that if you didn't have kids, I'd cut and run. Kids change everything. Everything.

In light of that, my advice is revised for you. Think of your kids' well-being first, then think of how you can cope with this if, as you say, nothing changes in the next 30 years.

My first marriage was pathetically sex-less and it lasted 9 years (and thankfully no kids). Hope things go better with you.
 
i'm with you, AE.
i've been a full time housewife and mom in the past.
not i have big kids, work full time and run the house alone.
being a full time mom of young kids was a hundred times more stressful and tiring! this bread winning lark has seemed a piece of cake in comparison.

...i'm not sure there's a medical 'fix' for these perfectly normal and natural low spots.
 
AlteredEgo said:
I can't imagine being horny with two small children. When a friend of mine was mentally ill, the state gave her children to her mother, who was incompetent, self-centered, and wanted the credit for being a good grandmother, but didn't want to do any work. I worked at night, so, during the day, I took the children. I fed them breakfast and lunch, found educational activities for us to do together, cleaned up their messes, and then brought them to the home of their aunt and uncle for a family supper. Once we got them registered in school, it was much easier. All I had to do was pick them up, and hang out with them for an hour or so while their aunt studied for the bar exam, and their uncle came home. I'd usually get out of their house before supper (felt weird having them feed me supper all the time). When their mother was cleared to have custody again, I was a constant presence at first, helping her re-adjust to life with a young family. I backed off until she met a man she started bringing around. Once I was sure he was okay, I offered to babysit a few times a month so they could go out.

I really had not even imagined how much harder it is to care for children 60 hours a week as opposed to just babysitting them for an evening. They were six and four at the time. I only had them all day for about a month, but it killed my drive. After they were gone, it didn't come back right away, either. I was so worried about them. I don't think I started having really regular sex again until that dude moved into their house and I saw how much they all loved each other.

Those aren't even my children. I don't have any hormonal response to caring for them. I bet my husband will be jerking off for a good six years when we have babies. It's not forever, but small children are exhausting, and sources of ceaseless worry.
Click to expand...

Bronx...uh I mean, Altered Ego, I'm sure it's hard but it's not impossible.
I mean you had a couple of kids to babysit.
What about Michelle Duggar? Hahahaha!!
She got 19 kids!!! NINETEEN!!! BACK TO BACK!!! Terrible twos constantly going on each year!!!
All those kids in the house at the same time raised by Mama Duggar.
Somehow, someway she finds the time to have sex with her husband.
Obviously, right? Haha.

With the thread starter's talk about them having 4 kids together, I'm sure he's not expecting his wife to give him multiple sessions per day or even wanting it every single day. With kids, things WILL change. It's not about the couple anymore, it's about the family.

But 3 months...come on. That just ain't gon' get it.
I'm sure he expected to compromise some with the kids around but not be shut out altogether.

Hiding behind the kids is an excuse. AND who's to say she always does the raising? Maybe he helps out too.
Those are HIS kids just as much as they are HER kids.

You got to keep up a connection somehow, someway. Make time. Make effort.
There are times when a partner is sick with illness. Tired from exhaustion or stress. Or just time when they just aren't feeling it that day. That's understandable. We all have our off days.
But there's no excuse for off months.

A man can use the excuse of work-related stress just the same as a woman can use the excuse of household-related stress.
Both are flimsy excuses. If they want to do it, they will do it.
But one person can't make the decision to connect, it takes two.
But one person CAN make the decision to disconnect & the thread starter is hoping & praying that he won't have to one day make this decision.

And Altered Ego, ain't no man with a healthy sex drive gonna be faithfully jerking off for six years waiting for his woman to get her groove back. Many won't even wait six months. Couples gotta have sex. It's pretty much the point of a "romantic" relationship.
John Lucas
 
dolfette said:
why is he pointing it out?
does it prove something?
Click to expand...
I think it's an attempt at showing familiarity. "I've been here long enough to know your old name, I've been reading your posts for years. I know you." That sort of thing. I guess.
 
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