The Religous Right
- Thread starter madame_zora
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as a christian and a conservative, but not a conservative christian, i must say that they don't represent me at all. the only "religious" commentator who more or less represents my views is andrew sullivan.
Andrew Sullivan
Andrew Sullivan
For my own two cents worth, I am an american living abroad in the UK. So I attend the interesting Church of England (which incidentally was the structural/hierarchical inspiration for the founding fathers, more so than parliament!!
, the CofE tends to be less strict and more pluralistic than most Anglican churches, this could be argued is the reason why their congregations are diminishing.
The churches that are growing (I think??) are those that are quite strict in their interpretation because they play on the insecurities of people at the moment. Beliving themselves caught up in the midst of a holy war the reassurance of someone telling you what is right and wrong is very comforting. I personally don't ascribe to this thought but I can understand the attractions, what I can't stand is the uneducated views and facts taken as gospel without the truth to back them up.
They say that although the founding fathers wrote we were to have a separation of church and state we still have 'In god we trust' on our money and "one nation under god" in the pledge of aligance. Both of which were of course added under Eisenhower as a reaction to the religous movement of the country at the end of WW2. To me its very similar to those people who are voraciously anti stem cell research without knowing what actually a stem cell is or where it comes from or what it does.
As a funny side note a british comedian david baddiel wrote this in the times about the da vinci code "Cardinal Tarcisio Bertone, the Archbishop of Genoa, said recently: The book is everywhere. There is a very real risk that many people who read it will believe that the fables it contains are true. Although he may have been talking about the Bible.
How fantastic that the Vatican is in a position where it is having to say: He walked on water, yes, he changed the loaves into fishes, yes, but whats this book suggesting? He was married? Had kids? Get out of here.
, the CofE tends to be less strict and more pluralistic than most Anglican churches, this could be argued is the reason why their congregations are diminishing.The churches that are growing (I think??) are those that are quite strict in their interpretation because they play on the insecurities of people at the moment. Beliving themselves caught up in the midst of a holy war the reassurance of someone telling you what is right and wrong is very comforting. I personally don't ascribe to this thought but I can understand the attractions, what I can't stand is the uneducated views and facts taken as gospel without the truth to back them up.
They say that although the founding fathers wrote we were to have a separation of church and state we still have 'In god we trust' on our money and "one nation under god" in the pledge of aligance. Both of which were of course added under Eisenhower as a reaction to the religous movement of the country at the end of WW2. To me its very similar to those people who are voraciously anti stem cell research without knowing what actually a stem cell is or where it comes from or what it does.
As a funny side note a british comedian david baddiel wrote this in the times about the da vinci code "Cardinal Tarcisio Bertone, the Archbishop of Genoa, said recently: The book is everywhere. There is a very real risk that many people who read it will believe that the fables it contains are true. Although he may have been talking about the Bible.
How fantastic that the Vatican is in a position where it is having to say: He walked on water, yes, he changed the loaves into fishes, yes, but whats this book suggesting? He was married? Had kids? Get out of here.
- jonb,
I suppose Andrew Sullivan's better than the Karl Roves of the world.
The latest neocon tactic is yet again to blame Clinton. "At least boosh is dooin sumthin agin those mawslims." Except Clinton did a lot more about terrorism, all of which Bush dismantled in his first 7 months of office.
The latest neocon tactic is yet again to blame Clinton. "At least boosh is dooin sumthin agin those mawslims." Except Clinton did a lot more about terrorism, all of which Bush dismantled in his first 7 months of office.
I just knew there was something final-sounding about our local mega-furniture store's latest best-ever sale:
END OF THE WORLD SALE!
No down payment, no credit checks, no interest, no payments EVER!
:wow:
[post=332010]Quoted post[/post]
[/b][/quote]Pecker, in your usual fashion, you made me spit diet dr. pepper across the room.
yeah except most people, even in the US, are only nominally religious. they may still be stupid fucktards that don't except evolution, but they aren't dogmatic enough to understand, much less fight, over their differences.
[post=332356]Quoted post[/post]
[/b][/quote]I'm not so sure. I agree that the majority fall into that category, but it doesn't take a majority to get us into a war, obviously. It takes people who are likeminded positioned in the right places. Fundamentalists of any religion are pretty easy to incite, because in order to accept the writing of any holy book I've read requires you to accept fallacies and illogical thinking processes. This is called "faith" and it exists in every religion I'm aware of, Hinduism, Buddhism, Christianity, Islam, Judaism- I don't know much about any others. Islamic and Christian fundamentalists have more in common than either of them recognise, I often wonder if every single member of both churches knew they were praying to the same God, if it would help.
But actual fundamentalists are far fewer than we are led to believe from the current media. It's the most cartoony acting ones who get the press, because they sell papers, but the majority of Christian are not fundamentalists, then there are members of other religions here as well as people who do not belong to a religous organisation. I have no data at all, but it may be that actual fundamentalists represent only about 10 or 15% of our total population, so I can see where the rest of the country could become upset that those few people are going to pass laws to further their personal beliefs and impose them upon a population who doesn't necessarily agree. Yeah, I think the fighting will get bad soon.
That being said, maybe when we're all Chinese citizens because bush put us in such a horrible debt that they are smart enough to CAPITALISE on the opportunity, all religion will be outlawed- oh delicious irony!
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Most fundmentalist Christians would refute that statement. While in theory God and Allah are supposed to be the same, there are too many differences in the attributes. Most fundamentalists feel that Muslims have perverted the one true God and that only the Jews and Christians worship the same God. The mindset of fundamentalist Christians is that "our God" (the God of the Bible and Torah) would not reward a suicide bomber by sending him to a paradise filled with innumerable virgins for his use, because heaven is not solely about our eternal pleasure but about the eternal praise of God.
I beg to differ. Fundamentalists are growing in number, and doing so rapidly. The fastest growing churches in the world are churches that fall into the "fundamentalist" category. There have been estimates that by the year 2030 that as a whole, Pentecostal churches (in their various flavors) will overtake the Catholic church in active membership and be the largest church in the world. Pentecostals are fundamentalists. There is a movement in the US to move to South Carolina if you are a fundamentalist. Because of the lower cost of living, people are able to come here and buy nice homes, exert pressure on our state government (because it is already fairly conservative), there is already large faction of "Christian-ness" in the state, since we are the home to Bob Jones University (home of fundamental education--elementary school, high school and college), plus it's just a nice place to live. There has been an influx of people from all over the country moving here trying to make this a fundamentalist haven.
Maybe you can go live in China since you don't want to practice organized religion, but there are plenty of people who still want to do so and will continue to do so.
orionsword57:
Most fundmentalist Christians would refute that statement. While in theory God and Allah are supposed to be the same, there are too many differences in the attributes. Most fundamentalists feel that Muslims have perverted the one true God and that only the Jews and Christians worship the same God....
God does not change regardless of who may or may not do the "perverting". The basis of the religious conflict in the world is not in what we worship, but how. The carnage and slaughter brought about because people differ on 5-8% of their religious experience shows how ridiculous the human condition is.
Most fundmentalist Christians would refute that statement. While in theory God and Allah are supposed to be the same, there are too many differences in the attributes. Most fundamentalists feel that Muslims have perverted the one true God and that only the Jews and Christians worship the same God....
[post=332446]Quoted post[/post]
[/b][/quote]God does not change regardless of who may or may not do the "perverting". The basis of the religious conflict in the world is not in what we worship, but how. The carnage and slaughter brought about because people differ on 5-8% of their religious experience shows how ridiculous the human condition is.
And both personal decisions used to be RIGHTS in this country. Freedom from religious persecution and all those quaint little ideas. Something like that anyway.
So I guess the message is: "worship how, when, where WE decide or leave the country." Does anyone else see a "National Religion" on the horizon?
- Njal,
Wow. Reading prepstudinc, I'm amazed that fundamentalists are considered conservative. A theocratic takeover of a state is not conservative, it is a breach with the all the best aspects of American political tradition: liberalism (in the original sense of the word), separation of Church and state etc. That is right-wing Christian radicalism and doesn't even come close to a reasonable definition of conservative.
So I guess you ARE in favor of removing my rights in preference of your own? Gee, I wonder why I'd be angry about that.
I'm glad you're happy in your community, but everyone else has the same right- not just you.
- jonb,
Most fundmentalist Christians would refute that statement. While in theory God and Allah are supposed to be the same, there are too many differences in the attributes. Most fundamentalists feel that Muslims have perverted the one true God and that only the Jews and Christians worship the same God. The mindset of fundamentalist Christians is that "our God" (the God of the Bible and Torah) would not reward a suicide bomber by sending him to a paradise filled with innumerable virgins for his use, because heaven is not solely about our eternal pleasure but about the eternal praise of God.
[post=332446]Quoted post[/post]
[/b][/quote]But you still favor terrorist tactics. Notice gaybashing. Notice bombing abortion clinics.
As for your "go to China" comment, if you want a theocracy, you can move to Iran any time.
since when have the religious ever felt the need to understand anything in order to use it as an excuse for killing people?
[post=332522]Quoted post[/post]
[/b][/quote]im talking about war between christian sects, not holy war against infidels. the latter is a posibility technically speaking, but I wouldn't lose any sleep over it.
However, most of the so-called Christians who engage in such pasttimes tend to be fundamentalists. Ever hear of Westboro Baptist Church? This is not a bash against the Baptists; even the Baptists don't accept the Westboro congregation as one of their own. Mainstream Christians, for the most part, denounce such activities.
