Why is it so hard to come out of the closet?

dannymawg

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When my BF came out to his father, his father made sure to give him a bloody nose and a black eye.
Yet another reason. I feel deeply for your BF, GoneA. I suspect in my world it will not come to blows (and my dad's passed anyway) - but I do anticipate some verbal abuse.

DH,

Online I get kind of guarded. But I’m going to go ahead and write this for you and me.
...
I greatly appreciate the concern, spiker - and from all who I've communicated with via PMs so far. In stumbling onto LPSG I've found a forum in which I can express myself - I see the comments on bullshit personas/posts, and feel compelled to say that I'm writing as close as possible to who I am in person here. A strange forum to do so in, but something I haven't mentioned: in the future I intend on pointing certain real life friends to the board here to read up on what I've written about myself. Picture is a thousand words, in a way. Dunno what effect the pics in my gallery will have, though :biggrin1:

And I said I wasn't going to hijack the thread :tongue:
 

GoneA

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Yet another reason. I feel deeply for your BF, GoneA. I suspect in my world it will not come to blows (and my dad's passed anyway) - but I do anticipate some verbal abuse.

Hum, I think the blows he suffered were somewhat more tolerable than the verbal abuse he suffered. IMHO.

But I do wish you Godspeed.
 

D_Kay_Sarah_Sarah

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Ive only ever been with men but i would one day love to at least being intimate just once with a woman. Who knows if it could turn into a relationship but ive had friends mention being bi around other friends and the family and they didnt get the best reaction. It wasnt anything bad just the talking and sniggering afterwards.
So i think if i did ever try out my lesbian side it would be away from here on a holiday or something. Sad i feel i would have to hide it but in this world it can be easier, at least until i work out what i want to label myself as anyway
 

dannymawg

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Hum, I think the blows he suffered were somewhat more tolerable than the verbal abuse he suffered. IMHO.

But I do wish you Godspeed.
I apologize if I trivialized your BF's situation, GoneA - that really wasn't my intent. Was looking to make a comparison and it turned out pretty weak.

In fact, between this faux pas and the fact that Lex's thread and situation is so much more complex - family, marriage, kids - maybe I should rethink how I'm going about this.
 

GoneA

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I apologize if I trivialized your BF's situation, GoneA - that really wasn't my intent. Was looking to make a comparison and it turned out pretty weak.

No, no, no, no ... not at all. I understand you're comparison and I agree, completely! I was just making an observation -- a personal observation, at that.
 

husky14620

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I've wronged those close to me on all three counts. I've not chosen to blab about it (excepting LPSG of course), but have resolved to reach out to those who might be questioning those three counts of me, as well. It's a big step - in the realm of admitting pathological lying, which, if I were in the shoes of others, I wouldn't be doing any trusting of this guy anymore either.

See above. In my fucked up corner of the world, gays or bis aren't accepted, are respected but with disdain, and can't be trusted (check fundie "gay = child molester" arguments).

I'm the guy you call when you need help on moving day. I'm the guy who can make your band rock out. I'm the guy that knows how to bypass that annoying chime in your car without hacking any wires. While I'm a klutz with an actual ball, but you give me something, I'm gonna fuckin run with it. I didn't need/want my cred challenged. I expect exactly as much respect as I dish out. As respect involves some emotional investment, I'm so very tired of having my investments tank.

So what does "normal" constitute nowadays? :biggrin1:


I know a lot about being the guy that people go to when some THING is screwed up. I have always been the guy to go to for moving, even after I fucked up my back. Technophobes bring all their questions to me. And MY "cred", as you put it, is based on my abilities. Of course, I have been out since high school, some thirty years ago. If you treat it as something to be ashamed of, so will your peers. And unless you have been outright lying to people, not just "hiding" in the closet, you haven't done anything to make you less than credible. And, if they really trust you, and you have proven your trust worthiness, then sharing the truth should help those around you learn the error of their ways. Some will never learn. Some may take some time. Some may ask what took so long. Yes, Chicago is in the mid-west, and much of the mid-west is conservative. But there is also a thriving Gay community in Chicago, and there are huge pockets of informed, intellegent people, even conservative ones, who know being Gay is NOT reason to disrespect anyone. There are people in every place, in every walk of life, who will never accept anyone who is Gay. So what? Who needs them?

Two thoughts:

1) Morals, like fashion, are cyclical. Are those cycles now so frequent and compressed as to cause dissonance (which I happen to like)? Sorry to sound like V, but I tried to express something similar here: shorts thread

2) "Traditional morals" was a default for me in the real world with most every sexuality dialog I've ever had. Or at least an easy out when the topic became uncomfortable - add "and it's wrong" to my sig and you'll get the idea). Easy enough default too, as one side of my family is hardcore Presbyterian witnesses, the other Catholic. I've only been recently able to rationalize my sexuality, independent of societal cause/effects, and largely in thanks to all the salient posting here on LPSG. Again, a compelling need to say thanks to you all for it, and for being here.

I guess I'm at the point where I have to let go of or rephrase pet sayings like "judge not lest ye be judged", if I intend on renouncing my family's Bible-based religions as a supposed moral compass. Which will make me even more persona non grata in a family that could get by without me anyway, and surprise (or not) many of my circles of friends.

OK time to chill :biggrin1:

"nuttin chillin at da Holidae In"

Here is where you have the real dissonance. "Traditional morals..." That could mean a lot of different things. What does it mean to you? If it means missionary sex only after marriage and only for procreation, then you have screwed yourself... On the other hand, if it means; Keeping your word, Following through on your promises, Being honest with people in your dealings with them, Trying to make other people's lives better, Respecting difference, Respecting nature (or creation), Avoiding hypocracy... then coming out will bring you closer into harmony with "Traditional morals" and you will have less dissonance in your life.

As for the Catholic and (southern) Presbyterian influences. It may surprise you to learn that before the "reunification" of the Presbyterian Church(es), the United Presbyterian Church USA was much more open toward Gays and Lesbians than the Presbyterian Church US was. Almost all of the More Light churches were United Pres. USA churches before the reconcilliation. If you know the history of Presbyterians in the US, the church split before the Civil War over the issue of slavery. It took over a hundred years for the (pro-slavery) US Church and the (anti-slavery) USA Church to iron out most of their differences. But the ensuing church is much more conservative than was the USA Church before the combination. I left the church before the merger, but the merger highlighted the reasons for leaving ever more clearly.

As to the broader issue of Gays and Christianity, no where in the New Testament is Jesus ever quoted saying one thing about Gays and Lesbians. Until the dark ages, the Catholic church had no such dogma against Gays and Lesbians. But He is quoted over and over about the importance of LOVE. It is only one small section of Paul's writings, of his own interpretations, that even remotely can be connected to Gays and Lesbians. And even that requires some broad interpretation of some of his vaguest writing.

I'm sure as you become more comfortable yourself with yourself, you will find it easier to open up to others as well.
 

husky14620

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Why is it so hard to come out of the closet? When my BF came out to his father, his father made sure to give him a bloody nose and a black eye.

That's why it's so damn hard to come out of the closet.

Fuck these people and their asinine, insensate beliefs. Fuck them till their tight asses bleed.

If your BF was legally an adult at the time, he should have filed criminal assault charges against the father.
 

scanjock8

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Given the difficult circumstances gays often face in society, I was, and still am, blessed in so many ways. A supportive family (my parents were so happy when I finally told them), major west coast city, progressive employer (Seattle is so gay corporate it's ridiculous), my church even accepts me (Episcopalian). God it makes me sad knowing how many gays are denied living the full lives they deserve.

It may not be easy or perfect, but people of all persuasions seek some form of acceptance from their surroundings--gays are no different. If you can't come out you need to get the fuck out. The Pet Shop Boys said it best--GO WEST (that was so gay!).
 

kalipygian

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12? That gets you to, let's see .... Nerva. The first of the "Five Good Emperors", immediate successor to the Flavian dynasty. Claudius was assassinated by one of his wives (the last one, obviously - I don't recall how many he had. All his marriages were arranged. I suspect Claudius realized how homicidal Roman women of that socialogical stratum were, but it didn't do him any good).

Correcting myself belatedly, the reference is from Edward Gibbon's Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire, it is actually the first 15 rather than the first 12. It is a footnote in reference to the deification and en-stellation of Hadrian's lover Antinous.
The count could either start with Julius Caesar (likely)('the Queen of Bithynia', 'every man's wife and every wife's husband') or Augustus, and would then go to either Hadrian or Antoninus Pius.
 

BlondeGuyJonah

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I have been out and went back in. My reasoning is because of dissapointment. My parents have pretty much given me everything in my life that I have ever needed or wanted (not meaning I'm spoiled as such, but just that I have had a very good upbringing). I thought that I liked guys when I first started puberty, I tried to deny it and reason with it, but eventually accepted it in my own mind that it was who I was. I looked up plenty of porn in secret on the computer, but what I didn't know about was the history or temporary files. A month before I turned 15, I came out to my mother while in the car home, I swear she nearly would have crashed if there were more traffic around. I had only said it because they were giving advice to a gay guy about sexual problems on the radio and I just couldn't hold back, it was completely unexpected that I did it. She responded really strangely and soon wondered off the topic, I don't know if she was shocked or what, but she isn't a person who would hate you for anything so I didn't need to worry about that. When we got home I went straight to my room and stayed there, about an hour later my dad came in. My mum had told my dad what I said an he freaked, he came from a large Irish Catholic family which obviously has some hold over how he thinks. He tried to rationalise it and tell me that I wasn't, he didn't understand and he was really upset, I was really upset, the whole issue at hand was just bad news. Over the next couple of months I had my internet access limited (dad knew about the porn sites), my dad would frequently come and have chats with me which were the worst ever, and there was constant tension between me and my parents. The problem for me was that they were upset, my dad was very obviously distressed and depressed about it, he would be very distant and not talk to me. My parents would fight a lot downstairs and it usually resulted in one of them crying, I felt the most horrible guilt over what I had caused. My mum was weird about it too, she had a cousin who she lost to AIDS and he was gay. She was worried that I would be bashed or catch a disease, or just generally have a difficult time in school and in life if I was gay. I asked her if dad hated me over this and she said no, but he thinks that it was his fault for raising me this way and that maybe he should leave us. I know it isn't my dads fault, it isn't anyones fault, it just happens because it isn't anyones choice to make. I tried to explain this to dad but he doesn't believe that due to his upbringing. He tried to rationalise it so much, he blamed himself so much and I could see that it was tearing him and my family apart. Both my parents have a history of depression, and I am no exception, and this was just making it worse. The thing with my parents however is that their emotions make them say things which they soon forget about and ignore later. My parents managed to get over it and forget about it. I didn't, I still felt guilty, I still felt nervous and embarassed and ashamed around them. No one said anything about it, and I wasn't sure if they still suspected it or not, but I still had the feelings inside me. I had told my 2 closest friends about how I thought I was gay. They didn't really care either way. One of them forgot on a periodical basis that I had ever told him and I had to really reinforce it to him. I still know him now and I think he wouldn't remember. So basically I had no one to discuss these things with, no supportive community. The only way I knew how to get information about being gay was the internet. To make things worse, I went back to me bad habits of looking up porn as well while I was browsing other things. This only led to being caught looking several times by my mum or brother and me claiming it was a dirty pop-up message. But when me dad caught me at 4AM in the morning trying to hide it, I knew I was busted. This was a few months before I turned 16, about I year sonce I had last come out. The same thing happened over again, dad's anger and depression, the talks trying to rationalise it and the internet ban. This time my dad went furthur and talked to out family GP about it, who he was also getting help for his depression (not like I was helping by what I was doing). I went and had a chat with the GP who deemed it as totally normal if I felt okay with it (which I wasn't sure if I was or not), but I have no idea what he told my dad (which only serves to complicate these things). The GP asked if I wanted to see a psychiatrist as it would really help to relieve my dad (also my dad wanted my to see someone because of my belief in the paranormal which he also found websites about that I had looked up). The GP wanted me to see an adult psychiatrist because he thought the situation needed it and because I was mature enough to explain my problems to one. But the guy refused to see me because I was under 18 and I saw a child psychologist instead. I also managed to get a recommendation to the urologist because it was at this time I realised I was having sexual problems. The psychologist pretty much found nothing, only slight OCD, but she had a chat with my parents in my last session and she mentioned something about my dads depression (he must have told her about it). After seeing the psychologist, the same thing happened, my parents completely forgot about the problem. I had my unsuccessful surgery on my penis (see my other thread for more info about this), and started looking up porn again. Dad caught me again and freaked and this started the whole situation again with the yelling at the talks and the depression. This situation was going nowhere, my dad refused to budge on the issue and I was just getting more confused about my sexuality physically, mentally and emotionally. Yet again, the issue blew over and was forgotten. I was about 16 and a half when that particular event occured. I still secretly kept looking up porn (I now have my own laptop which makes things easier in a way) and I had a few gay friends at school who I could talk to about things. Those 3 were to the only guys in school who knew I was gay. Some people might have thought I was because I hung around with them, but others just thought I was the straight one in the group. Regardless, at the beginning of 2006 that group of friends showed they weren't to be trusted and fortunately I hadn't invested anything too deep with them. Yet for the rest of 2006 I made new friends who still don't know I'm gay ( actually one or 2 might know I'm bisexual becuase of stuff I said when I was really drunk). This leads me to now where I am a week from turning 19, still not officially out to my parents, my friends or even myself really. I am back in the closet for the third time and have no plans of coming out again anytime soon, but I know I will have to come out eventually. This post does have a point besides being a random story. The reason it is hard for me to come out is my knowledge of how much I am hurting my parents who have done so much for me. My being gay makes me feel like I am punishing them for their love they have showed me. That makes me feel eternally guilty. The reason it is a common problem is a lack of support. In a minority, you usually have the minority status in common with people automatically. Black people having black families (unless you are adopted) which can understand and empathise with racism. Peoples religions such as Islam and Judaism are usually a religion they are brought up with in their family, and when they are made victims of bigotry or prejudice, then they can turn to that same family who again can empathise and understand. For gay people, it is a different minority. Your parents are unlikely to be gay themselves, and so it makes it difficult to have that support network you need when you come out. If the people you turn to for support are the same people who are attacking you, then this is a big problem. Sure you can make gay friends to support you, but this can be a catch 22 whereby you may need to make mention you are gay for other people to do the same, which can always have negative results. Coming out is a big risk, especailly if you are young and dependant on your parents. Coming out can be a big risk too if you are older and have an established position in life, in can, unfortunately, change how coworkers and close friends may feel about you and the fact you didn't come out to them straight earlier if you have known them for quite some time. I really want to come out, but it seems I will need to go through so much more before that.
 

Matthew

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Jonah, what a hard story. I truly hope things improve for you and I believe they will. For what it's worth, you have not caused your parents pain. It's their own homphobia which is hurting them. You are not responsible for that. Maybe they aren't fully responsible either, since we all inherit prejudice and misinformation from society at large, from our churches, from the media, etc. But in a way your parents have some responsibility, since it is possible in this day and age to find enlightened views on gays if you are willing to look.

I know it's hard for you to see them hurting, but you are hurting too and you need to take care of yourself first and foremost. You need to try and relieve yourself of some of the guilt you are feeling about them because, as I said, it is actually not your fault. You deserve a chance to be happy in life and to be accepted for your sexuality. If you plan and continue slowly and surely on a path toward healthy situations for you, you will eventually find that acceptance and happiness.
 

Lex

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Jonah, I know it may be hard to believe right now, but one day when you are ready, you will be out and will feel SO much better. I can not say that it will be easy. In fact, the time right after came out to both of my parents was extremely difficult. I lost about 13 pounds and was an anxious wreck for weeks.

Today, I stand in the mirror and would never look back. You'll get there man. Love yourself, so others may love you fully as well.
 

RubberHarley

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I am staight, but I feel that whatever makes you happy and comfortable, then just do that, whatever it might be. After all, each of us has to live with themselves. I'm happy straight, but if one is happy being bi - hey, go for it. Life is too short to get hung up on "labels". More power to you!
Regards,
 

kalipygian

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Jonah, are you planning to go to a live in university? I would really recommend it, excellent for getting to be around a completely different group of people, likely much more open minded, both students and faculty.

I read your earlier thread a while ago, on erection/ sensitivity problems, was going to suggest that it would be great if you could be with someone who was interested in more than just an anonymous quickie with you, that you could be with long enough to become comfortable together.There is a lot more to eroticism than just your cock, and cumming isn't the only possible object. I would suggest telling a potential partner up front not to have expectations of a hardon with you, if that's all they are interested in, it's their loss.
 

BlondeGuyJonah

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Thanks for the responses everyone. I didn't mean to turn this thread into one about me, I just wanted to show an example about the difficulties that some people face when attempting to come out.
 

kalipygian

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Thanks for the responses everyone. I didn't mean to turn this thread into one about me, I just wanted to show an example about the difficulties that some people face when attempting to come out.
Thats fine if it's any help to you.

Gay people (sexual minority) are to only group that regularly gets kicked out by the family they are born into.(or at least not understood ) The only people who have to go out and find their tribe. (the ugly duckling)

A heriditary minority has a built in support group.
 

JustAsking

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BlondGuyJonah,
I just read your long post of a week ago, back in this thread a bit. It is one of the most painful posts I have read in a long time. I am not gay, but I have had a number of gay teenagers in a church youth group I was involved with confide in me about coming out. Each of their stories was as painful as yours in their own ways.

I think others here who have been through this might be able to give you better advice than I on what you might do about this. However, I would like to offer a few words of advice about your feelings of guilt, because in the midst of all of this, you certainly don't need that burden as well.

There is considerable scientific evidence to show that almost all gayness is biological in origin, and very little of it is caused by life experience, psychology, or upbringing. I would venture to say that all of it is biological, but I don't think there is quite enough "smoking gun" evidence for that.

Heredity might play a part, but there doesn't seem to be a "gay gene" that has been identified. However, sexuality is a much more biologically fluid thing than we normally regard it. Gayness probably has more to do with how genes are expressed during child development, perhaps as far back as fetal development.

What this means is that there is nothing you have done to bring about your gayness. It is an almost certainty that you did not choose it and an almost certainty that you cannot unchoose it. It is as much a biological fact as any other physical aspect of your being.

Just as important for your peace of mind and your parents' peace of mind is that there is nothing they could have done or not done to prevent this biological fact. It is simply as much out of anyone's control as the determination of your gender was.

It is inevitable that you would feel pain and guilt about "doing this to your parents", and I don't want to suggest that these feelings are unusual or unnatural. But it is true that the feelings are unfounded. What I mean to say is that you didn't "do this to your parents." What happened was nature "did this to you and your parents.". You bear as much responsibility for their disappointments and fears as you would if they had wanted a boy and you were born a girl.

Your parents' reaction to your disclosure is not surprising since being a parent under any circumstances is terrifying. Their reaction is driven by a number of things such as fear of the unknown, fear of change, having their vision for your future rocked off its foundation, worrying about how this might fit into your life and their life with family and friends, and a natural but irrational idea that somehow they are responsible for you being gay. So the guilt you feel about having "done something to your parents" is being mirrored back to you in their feeling that they "did something or failed to do something to you" when they raised you.

This last thing is something that you and they have the most control over. What I mean is that if you and they had a clear idea that no one is to blame, you all have a chance of reconciling it for yourself and between you all. But until that becomes clear in everyone's mind, that effort will be completely overshadowed by guilt and fear which will only be counterproductive. Until that gets worked out, you will all be hurting each other as you bounce off all the fear, misunderstanding, guilt, etc.

What you need is someone in your life and your family's life who could get everyone to this realization. There is a 50/50 chance that even your family's GP is not up to this task. Your best bet is family counseling by someone who is really good. I know you have tried counseling before but this is difficult enough for you and your family that you might have to make a few attempts to find someone with the right advice and the talent to pull it all off.

Finally, the reason why this is all so difficult is not because you are a freak. The reason is that as a society we are really screwed up about gayness. This will be the source of most of the difficulties you run into in your life being gay. Its hard enough for anyone to learn how to have healthy intimate relationships with whoever you will be partnering with in life. You have the added burden of having to swim against the tide of heterosexual ignorance all around you as you figure all of this out for yourself.

I really hope you can work this out with your parents. If they can come to reconcile with this and be in a position to support you in life in the various ways that parents do, it will make a huge difference in your life as you go forth. It is definitely worth the effort to find a way that helps you and them figure this out. You deserve a chance at a good and happy life as much as anyone else does. You are as much a child of God as anyone else is.
 

Hryblkone

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I remember an incident at age 9 when I was at the Boy's Club while on a day trip. An older boy (15?) and myself were caught in a compromising position by some other boys. Ultimately I was brought before the few staff members in charge, comprised mostly of young black men in their late teens and 20's. You can imagine what I went through. I tried defending myself, letting them know that an older friend of the family showed me the same activity. You'd think a red flag would go up (molestation?) in these peoples minds. I was called a "fag" told I was wrong and that it was unnatural. They even asked why don't I go "fuck a tree" all in front of other children. I came very close to being stoned that day! After that day I began to realize the ugliness of humanity when it came to this "condition". That no matter how different we all are in this society some will never learn to tolerate us. After that day I realized what I did was wrong and decide it best to keep my orientation to myself and those that I sleep with. Mind you, this happened back in 1984 when AIDS was just reaching the mainstream press. All I remember were the threats and humiliation by other club members and how the news of this might reach my parents.

Years later I confided in my Grandmother who has been my closest relative. Even she chided me. Making me feel I was manipulated into this act by the older boys when it was consensual. She went on further to tell me there were never any "funny" people in our family and that there shouldn't be (I guess because we consider ourselves above that). Along with the accelerated puberty and the absent father, it made me feel like a freak for most of my life. Fortunately, as I grew older I began to know better. This is the reason most of my sexual experiences have been in my late teens and 20's. I began to realize there were men who shared the same desires and, as well, desired me.

After my college years one of my roommate/friends began to call me out and stated that he had more respect for those who came out because they dared to defy society's stuffy mores. I didn't have the heart to tell him because it was too painful a memory that I blocked it out of my mind. So, to many I may have been a pathological liar but I was trying to defend myself from the same attack that happened years ago. It's hard to come out, even moreso if you're already a minority. The other night I let my bf know I have resolved to come out to my friends and family in 2007. Not because I have something to prove or to be closer with them but to make everyone aware of the fact that I am a human being. Just because I relate sexually to men does not, I mean does NOT equate me with a pedophile. Just because I get turned on by men doesn't mean that all you uptight straight ones are fair game. I realized while growing up it was/is mostly you straight men who feel uneasy by my sexuality, or lack thereof (because most of you only want to talk about sports!). They claim that everyone deserves the right to be loved but does it really matter by whom?