Cut VS Uncut

[chico8]

Why doesn't someone sue the hospitals who create such misery for the botched guys - isn't this what people listen to in the States?

There's a time limit so by the time most guys figure out their circumcision has ruined their sex lives, it's too late to do anything. More and more hospitals are realizing that they have to get both parents express consent before they cut. And, it has to be after the woman is capable of signing a form. Most doctors and hospitals now discuss it before the birth so as to avoid lawsuits later on. Also, historically, parents have been granted a great deal of latitude when it comes to surgical procedures performed on their minor children, WHETHER IT IS MEDICALLY NECESSARY OR NOT!

There are a couple of lawsuits out there that are working their way through the courts. In 1996, it became illegal to circumcise girls for any reason whatsoever, including religion. Of course, not including boys means the law is sexist in nature (incidentally, female circ also reduces UTIs and has been used as a reason to reduce STDs as well). There's hope that someday, circumcision will be outlawed. Many hispanics aren't circumcised so given they are the largest minority in the US, sheer numbers might do what money hasn't.

The problem of course lies with religious circumcision. You can bet the Jews and Muslims will scream bloody murder if they're not allowed their barbaric rituals.

 

[IntactMale]

yes a complication is possible but it will in no way shorten every single circumcised male 1/2" to 1"
and no i have not experience torsion but i have done physical exams and scrubbed in for them.....hopefully youre clamped now to avoid it again
and let me guess the varicocele is on the left correct?

yeah, it probably only happens as often as circumcisions where only half of the foreskin is actually removed.

Unfortunately I'm not clamped. Luckily I've been able to correct all the other torsions I've had within 20-30 minutes. It's extremely painful, but it beats the hospital.

My varecocele i on the left, you can probably see it in a few of my pics. I think I also have one on the right though. I went to a urologist to see about embolization, but he said they really don't do that cause there's too great a risk of losing the testicle. Meanwhile I have a aching bag of worms.

 

[B_dxjnorto]

yes a complication is possible but it will in no way shorten every single circumcised male 1/2" to 1"

Hmm. As far as I know, cutting a part of something off does make it smaller.

In a study investigating the adequacy of condom sizes, Richters, Gerofi and Donovan noted that circumcised men had shorter erect penises by a mean length of 8mm than genitally intact men.

The difference was attributed to not having enough skin to expand fully. Circ also makes them thinner. Upon erection, the foreskin rolls back and pads out the shaft. Check it out yourself. Most natural men have a fuller "ballpark frank" appearance.

Go figure.

 

[baseball99]

yeah, it probably only happens as often as circumcisions where only half of the foreskin is actually removed.

Unfortunately I'm not clamped. Luckily I've been able to correct all the other torsions I've had within 20-30 minutes. It's extremely painful, but it beats the hospital.

My varecocele i on the left, you can probably see it in a few of my pics. I think I also have one on the right though. I went to a urologist to see about embolization, but he said they really don't do that cause there's too great a risk of losing the testicle. Meanwhile I have a aching bag of worms.

chico8, seriously whats your deal? i didnt call you a liar.....by the way anger is a sign of codepency issues.....anyways, the foreskin is an extended flap of skin, much like the epiglottis in the mouth.....it would be equivalent to cutting out your uvula and now claiming your mouth is smaller.....also is it possible that someone's skin is not stretchy enough to eventually stretch during erection to prevent the penis from "shrinking", possibly, but i would suspect certain collagen disorders since most people's skin is extremely stretchy.....in fact it should stretch as you get older bc you lose collagen and fibrillin and therefore your skin is less elastic so it remains stretched.....the botched circumcisions are far and few between (yes horrible but still very few), I see anywhere from 30-50 babies thru 21 year olds every day.....I do a full physical exam on them.....I have seen very very few botched circumcisions.....interestingly i have seen more phimosis.....of course safe sex is the only way to prevent STDs, but its not even 100% itself.....read one of my other posts about CD4+ T-cells, increased WBC,etc.....you can not deny that.....and you obviously cant read and if you can you can not read correctly.....i have never said i recommend circumcision.....get that thru your thick head please.....i have only recommended it to boys with severe phimosis and a few other complications.....for a while i wouldnt get my sons circumcised, now after seeing what i have (thru my narrow vision right?) i will have it done because i dont see any true evidence that your sex life is increased, sensitivity, etc and i want my sons to avoid any of the potential complications.....i think it was you that mentioned from your circumcision your penis got shoved an inch inside your body? i would love for you to explain that anatomy and possibility to me.....that in no way is possible whatsoever and i will call you out on that......you obviously have no understanding of anatomy to even make a comment like that.....by the way i cut my fingernails today so my glove size is now smaller

dxjnorto - there has not been any condom studies with a high n-value where it hasnt been self-reported.....self-reported studies are flawed from the start.....next you are right if a circumferential scar is too tight it can decrease girth but it would be in that exact area and would have no effect below.....however i have yet to see a circumferential scar cause that but the theory is true

intactmale - i believe greater than 90% are on the left, it has to do with the drainage of the testicular veins.....just think if as a fetus you werent grown to be a girl before the testosterone kicked in you wouldnt have that problem.....blame nature for favoring females.....there's a higher risk of infertilitiy associated with varicoceles because of the icnreased blood and increased temperature but its not that high of a risk.....also i am in no way offering advice but torsion recurrs frequently and clamping is very effective.....see what your urologist recommends

 

[B_dxjnorto]

Same old trivialization of genital cutting and minimization of nature. If we cut off your ears, you'd say it hadn't affected your hearing.

 

[chico8]

chico8, seriously whats your deal? i didnt call you a liar.....by the way anger is a sign of codepency issues.....anyways, the foreskin is an extended flap of skin, much like the epiglottis in the mouth.....it would be equivalent to cutting out your uvula and now claiming your mouth is smaller.....also is it possible that someone's skin is not stretchy enough to eventually stretch during erection to prevent the penis from "shrinking", possibly, but i would suspect certain collagen disorders since most people's skin is extremely stretchy.....in fact it should stretch as you get older bc you lose collagen and fibrillin and therefore your skin is less elastic so it remains stretched.....the botched circumcisions are far and few between (yes horrible but still very few), I see anywhere from 30-50 babies thru 21 year olds every day.....I do a full physical exam on them.....I have seen very very few botched circumcisions.....interestingly i have seen more phimosis.....of course safe sex is the only way to prevent STDs, but its not even 100% itself.....read one of my other posts about CD4+ T-cells, increased WBC,etc.....you can not deny that.....and you obviously cant read and if you can you can not read correctly.....i have never said i recommend circumcision.....get that thru your thick head please.....i have only recommended it to boys with severe phimosis and a few other complications.....for a while i wouldnt get my sons circumcised, now after seeing what i have (thru my narrow vision right?) i will have it done because i dont see any true evidence that your sex life is increased, sensitivity, etc and i want my sons to avoid any of the potential complications.....i think it was you that mentioned from your circumcision your penis got shoved an inch inside your body? i would love for you to explain that anatomy and possibility to me.....that in no way is possible whatsoever and i will call you out on that......you obviously have no understanding of anatomy to even make a comment like that.....by the way i cut my fingernails today so my glove size is now smaller

dxjnorto - there has not been any condom studies with a high n-value where it hasnt been self-reported.....self-reported studies are flawed from the start.....next you are right if a circumferential scar is too tight it can decrease girth but it would be in that exact area and would have no effect below.....however i have yet to see a circumferential scar cause that but the theory is true

Sometimes anger is just what it is, anger. Any physician would tell you that is an extremely egotistical approach to diagnosis. I pity the patients you see...

My penis "grew" an additional half inch by restoring my foreskin. I was cut so tignt that it was jammed back into my body, end of story. I'm not the only person who is restoring so you're either calling us liars or simply unable to place any belief in those of us who feel that RIC IS genital mutilation. Blather on all you want about the impossibility of growth but in the end that's what happens.

So you see no need for RIC but you will have your sons clipped. That doesn't make any sense at all. I feel sorry for them.

You go on about self reported studies and their lack of validity and then you claim that intact guys are no more sensitive than cut ones. How did you come up with that? Do you have verifiable proof that the loss of a foreskin is irrelevant? No studies have been done to prove that, however, there is tons of anecdotal evidence out there that certainly suggests that a great deal of sensitivity has been lost through circumcision. You're blinding yourself simply to deny that sensitivity must be lost when thousands of nerves and nerve receptors have been severed.

 

[IntactMale]

intactmale - i believe greater than 90% are on the left, it has to do with the drainage of the testicular veins.....just think if as a fetus you werent grown to be a girl before the testosterone kicked in you wouldnt have that problem.....blame nature for favoring females.....there's a higher risk of infertilitiy associated with varicoceles because of the icnreased blood and increased temperature but its not that high of a risk.....also i am in no way offering advice but torsion recurrs frequently and clamping is very effective.....see what your urologist recommends

Isn't everyone initially a female until testosterone is introduced? My urologist explained is as a valve in the vein that is fault and remains shut for whatever reason. He also said about 30-40% of men have one, it's just usually too small and painless to notice. Unfortuantely mines larger than most (I think because I have a low haning scrotum.) He also said there's normally not much of a chance of decreased fertilization, excet for extreme cases, and that is the only time they will perform corrective surgery. I haven't had a sperm count so I don't know where I fit in to that.

I know I should get the torsion fixed, my urologist and family have all recommended doing it. It scares me though, I've never had surgery and I keep hearing people talking about your balls swelling up to the size of a grape fruit or something. At least my mother said that my Dad got that swollen after his vasectomy. I'd imagine the clamping is even more invasive than that though. Unforunately I've had torsions on both sides now, I think the right one hurt far more.

 

[baseball99]

Sometimes anger is just what it is, anger. Any physician would tell you that is an extremely egotistical approach to diagnosis. I pity the patients you see...

My penis "grew" an additional half inch by restoring my foreskin. I was cut so tignt that it was jammed back into my body, end of story. I'm not the only person who is restoring so you're either calling us liars or simply unable to place any belief in those of us who feel that RIC IS genital mutilation. Blather on all you want about the impossibility of growth but in the end that's what happens.

So you see no need for RIC but you will have your sons clipped. That doesn't make any sense at all. I feel sorry for them.

You go on about self reported studies and their lack of validity and then you claim that intact guys are no more sensitive than cut ones. How did you come up with that? Do you have verifiable proof that the loss of a foreskin is irrelevant? No studies have been done to prove that, however, there is tons of anecdotal evidence out there that certainly suggests that a great deal of sensitivity has been lost through circumcision. You're blinding yourself simply to deny that sensitivity must be lost when thousands of nerves and nerve receptors have been severed.

nerves are severed yes, but not all nerves dont relay information based on touch but i wont even try and get into that.....anecdotal evidence is just that.....some people still believe giving their kids aspirin when they have a viral infection is good for reducing fever and will do it even tho you tell them you can killd your kid if you do that by causing Retts syndrome.....notice i said aspirin and not tylenol.....i also like how you tell me "any physician would tell you....." how many physicians do you interact with? me, easily 100+.....maybe just for kicks i'll ask around.....next i really dont care what your opinion is or what the antecdotal evidence is.....i care about the primary research articles and what i see on a daily basis.....just like when you're trying to resuscitate a child there comes a point where you have to make a decision to stop treatment based on the science and your experience, its not an easy decision but i would much much rather have a doctor who makes that decision based on primary research as opposed to antecdotal evidence.....I didnt claim circ are more or less, i said there are electromyographic studies and neurologic studies based on EMG's, EEG's and MRI's that do not show a great difference in the number or neurons excited.....i will tell you that sensation in general is very subjective.....think about pain for example. There are people who are so tolerant of pain they are amazing.....their appendix could rupture, have an MI, and break their leg and they'll look like theyre in minor distress and then you'll have another person who has fibromyalgia who is extremely sensitive to pain and touching their shoulder causes them to agonize.....i would suspect light touch would be very much the same.....and how the brain reacts to the stimulation is what causes the pleasure.....its not the number of nerves, its how rapidly they depolarize and how frequently and how the brain interprets it.....and even more interestingly there are some people with an amputated limb that can still feel the pain in their hand or foot that isnt there anymore

 

[baseball99]

Isn't everyone initially a female until testosterone is introduced? My urologist explained is as a valve in the vein that is fault and remains shut for whatever reason. He also said about 30-40% of men have one, it's just usually too small and painless to notice. Unfortuantely mines larger than most (I think because I have a low haning scrotum.) He also said there's normally not much of a chance of decreased fertilization, excet for extreme cases, and that is the only time they will perform corrective surgery. I haven't had a sperm count so I don't know where I fit in to that.

I know I should get the torsion fixed, my urologist and family have all recommended doing it. It scares me though, I've never had surgery and I keep hearing people talking about your balls swelling up to the size of a grape fruit or something. At least my mother said that my Dad got that swollen after his vasectomy. I'd imagine the clamping is even more invasive than that though. Unforunately I've had torsions on both sides now, I think the right one hurt far more.

yep, nature wants us all to be girls until you're flooded with testosterone and hopefully the few genes on the Y chromosome are sensitive to the testosterone and turn the clitoris into a penis and the labia majora into your scrotum, the ovaries into testes.....There are different pathophysiology of varicoceles, which basically are incompetent valves causing too much blood to hang out in those veins.....although your balls might be large (you can blame it on that if you want) but its probably just an incidental finding.....30-40% seems a bit high, i thought it was closer to 10% but again im not a urologist.....maybe its 30-40% of his patients? As for the torsion, its generally recommended to get it repaired because of the rate of recurrence.....also if there is torsion there is about 6 hours to relieve the stress before the testicle infarcts and dies. I think (im not sure bc i never scrubbed in for a vasectomy) that it is relatively minor procedure and shouldnt cause as much damage as a vasectomy bc youre really not cuttin anything other than skin

 

[IntactMale]

yep, nature wants us all to be girls until you're flooded with testosterone and hopefully the few genes on the Y chromosome are sensitive to the testosterone and turn the clitoris into a penis and the labia majora into your scrotum, the ovaries into testes.....There are different pathophysiology of varicoceles, which basically are incompetent valves causing too much blood to hang out in those veins.....although your balls might be large (you can blame it on that if you want) but its probably just an incidental finding.....30-40% seems a bit high, i thought it was closer to 10% but again im not a urologist.....maybe its 30-40% of his patients? As for the torsion, its generally recommended to get it repaired because of the rate of recurrence.....also if there is torsion there is about 6 hours to relieve the stress before the testicle infarcts and dies. I think (im not sure bc i never scrubbed in for a vasectomy) that it is relatively minor procedure and shouldnt cause as much damage as a vasectomy bc youre really not cuttin anything other than skin

I was blaming it more ona loose scrotum, I know it's not the cause, but I don't think it's helping. More vascularization means more veins that can get dialated and full of blood. I think it's likely that I have such a large varecocele because my balls hang very low.

Luckily I have been able to correct my own varecoceles fairly quickly. And I'm really more concerned about my testicle atrophying (sp.) because of the varecocele. I knwo with a vasectomy they make a small incision in the scrotum and cut and plug up the vas deferens. The way the torsion surgery was explained to me was that they have to actually suchre your testicles to the scrotum. I don't know, considering how much a ball tap hurts, I don't want to put any stitches in my testicles.

My urologist said 30-40%, but alot of them are often too small to be noticed and won't cause any problems. When they get to be like mine they are pretty big and sometimes cause an aching that can make walking and sitting kind of painful.

 

[Charles Finn]

cutting something by it's very name is taking someting away.
even if you think it is just extra skin.

 

[D_Gunther Snotpole]

Well, you know, I was circumcized at 9 -- and my post-circumcision sex was better and more abundant.
So go figure ...

 

[IntactMale]

Luckily I have been able to correct my own varecoceles fairly quickly.

I meant torsion.

 

[Lordpendragon]

I have torn my frenulum on a couple of occasions - the pain is excruciating - I can not believe that anyonne would want to cause a newborn this pain. It must cause a psychological scar?

So - what's the first thing your mom did for you?

 

[IntactMale]

That sounds pretty damn painful, I can't imagine being able to do it more than once.

 

[baseball99]

I have torn my frenulum on a couple of occasions - the pain is excruciating - I can not believe that anyonne would want to cause a newborn this pain. It must cause a psychological scar?

So - what's the first thing your mom did for you?

i have seen teenage boys literally tear their foreskins from jerkin too hard

 

[palicao]

i have seen teenage boys literally tear their foreskins from jerkin too hard

i was one lol

and the process was really painful, not too mention it makes u very uncomfortable.
but years passed and now i don't have anymore this problem hopefully >.>

btw if i had a son, i would want him cut for sure cause i would not want him to pass that ugly period ; ;

(even if now i enjoy my pretty foreskin eheheh)

 

[IntactMale]

It seems like it would be easier to tear something being circumsized. I don't really even want to think about that though.

 

[Lordpendragon]

i have seen teenage boys literally tear their foreskins from jerkin too hard

This is not the response I would expect from a medic - are you able to say what the relative pain of cutting the frenulum is - after all you are strongly advocating it being done on very small children.

Incidentally - my tears came from a very tight and over enthusiastic ex.

 

[IntactMale]

i have seen teenage boys literally tear their foreskins from jerkin too hard

Watch what you say, you might get a visit from the feds who are curious why you were watching teen boys jerk off. lol