Date rape. What do you think?

[Drifterwood]

The links provided have tons of supporting research and references.

One unspecified survey in one unspecified US Midwestern Town will not convince me, from two Blog sites with clear agendas.

Furthermore, recanting an accusation is not the same as admitting that it is false.

What you will find is proper reasearch that around 10% of accusations are false and sometimes malicious.

 

[B_curiousme01]

What if they get drunk themselves? What if there is no force at all?

Yet young people do it all the time. They think that's how you get laid. Guys have frat parties to get drunk and to get women drunk to have sex with them. They blatantly advertise it as a place to "get drunk and fuck". Is that a problem?

Do you think that's how to get laid? What do you think of the huge gang of young guys that watched and raped a fifteen-year-old girl a while back that made national news? Is that a problem for you or do you think because she walked down the street by herself, she deserved it? What young people should be taught at home AND school is respect for other people and the definition of the word 'No.'

 

[THEDUDEofDestiny]

the thing about date rape is, that if both parties are drunk the guy is still guilty of rape - which i don't think is fair. on the other hand i once went out with a female friend and she tried to go round for round with me. needless to say she was absolutely legless at the bar. i was talking to another chick and turned around and an entire bar full of guys was around her hitting on her despite the fact that she had fallen over more than once. i grabbed her and basically carried her to a cab and took her home where i carried her from a cab to my bed and slept on the floor beside her. the thing is for all anyone knew i was taking home a girl far drunker than me and no one had a problem. add that to the fact that every guy there was looking to "recover the fumble" and you have an issue that needs to be dealt with.

 

[B_curiousme01]

Just because you go to a bar and get drunk does not mean you are agreeable to being raped or that if two people are drunk in the same room one can rape the other. Again, NO MEANS NO. I did not read every post in this thread, but I think on page one is a story from a guy who was raped. He truly understands rape in a way the majority of men never will. Some men simply cannot comprehend what it means and will forever deny it is real. That is until they have had a cocktail or five and suddenly find themselves with their pants down and someone bigger, stronger and meaner behind them. That might cause one to reflect a bit.

 

[dolfette]

i grabbed her and basically carried her to a cab and took her home where i carried her from a cab to my bed and slept on the floor beside her. the thing is for all anyone knew i was taking home a girl far drunker than me and no one had a problem.

this is just sad.
it makes me fuming angry that guys seeing being so drunk go into sexual predator mode.
it makes me very sad that a guy can carry a drunk girl out of a bar and have nobody challenge him.

i recall a few years ago, new guidelines were given to bouncers here. they were supposed to double check on any blind drunk girl leaving the club with a guy...just to make sure she was aware of the risks and he was aware he'd been clocked.

 

[petite]

Yes, date rape is rape! And this is something men very clearly know, as shown by a recent study in which men self-reported themselves as rapists based on descriptions of rape and date rape.

Some psychologists believed that men date-rape out of "confusion" over whether it is rape or not. The questionaire proves that men very clearly understand the difference between consensual and non-consensual sex, and will admit to rape just as long as the word "rape" isn't used.

Rapists Who Don’t Think They’re Rapists - The Sexist - Washington City Paper

Rapists Admit Repeated Crimes — As Long As You Don't Call It "Rape" - Rape - Jezebel

Out of 1,882 respondents, and 6% answered yes to at least one of the questions, who averaged 5.8 offenses each, "just 4% of the men surveyed committed over 400 attempted or completed rapes."

 

[THEDUDEofDestiny]

im not saying if two people are drunk and one says "no", im saying if two people are drunk and both consent the male is still a rapist in the eyes of the law. on the other hand those laws are pretty worthless as it is impossible to convict in most cases. still, 90% of the time im having sex im in a dim alcohol haze, and usually the girl i am with is too. i dated a girl for about a year and all we did was go to bars and then bang. im not saying it is a healthy choice but i refuse to believe i was raping my girlfriend 5 or 6 times a week for that whole time period

 

[dolfette]

Some psychologists believed that men date-rape out of "confusion" over whether it is rape or not.

like that tosser who tried to tell me that agreeing to date him & having a couple of drinks was a cry for help...help meaning to him, him taking the nasty old choice thing out of my hands so i could just enjoy myself.

it has made me wonder what would've happened to a less aggressing, strong woman.

he'd convinced himself that it was what i secretly wanted him to do.

 

[B_FatMushroomHead]

What a stupid fucking thread.

How do you guys feel about cutting off childrens arms in sierra leone?

Really? Sheesh mcgeesh.

 

[petite]

im not saying if two people are drunk and one says "no", im saying if two people are drunk and both consent the male is still a rapist in the eyes of the law. on the other hand those laws are pretty worthless as it is impossible to convict in most cases. still, 90% of the time im having sex im in a dim alcohol haze, and usually the girl i am with is too. i dated a girl for about a year and all we did was go to bars and then bang. im not saying it is a healthy choice but i refuse to believe i was raping my girlfriend 5 or 6 times a week for that whole time period

Sex while drunk isn't rape! It's rape if she's too drunk to defend herself from you and she doesn't want to have sex with you, even if you're drunk, too, when you're using force to make her have sex with you.

You know the difference.

like that tosser who tried to tell me that agreeing to date him & having a couple of drinks was a cry for help...help meaning to him, him taking the nasty old choice thing out of my hands so i could just enjoy myself.

it has made me wonder what would've happened to a less aggressing, strong woman.

he'd convinced himself that it was what i secretly wanted him to do.

LOL! Damn, what a smooth talker! That's just scary!

 

[THEDUDEofDestiny]

Sex while drunk isn't rape! It's rape if she's too drunk to defend herself from you and she doesn't want to have sex with you, even if you're drunk, too, when you're using force to make her sex with you.

You know the difference.

if they wanted to claim rape afterwards, they could under the law. it would be bullshit because i am a huge alcoholic and am usually the drunkest person in the room. the girl that i dated, however, had an even worse problem that i do and would also usually be incredibly drunk. this was to the point when on the nights we didnt have sex it would be because we passed out on public transportation on the way home. im sure some of the times we had sex she could have called it rape, but she didn't because we both knew we were going to have sex when the evening started. im just saying, legally, it is a grey area

 

[petite]

if they wanted to claim rape afterwards, they could under the law. it would be bullshit because i am a huge alcoholic and am usually the drunkest person in the room. the girl that i dated, however, had an even worse problem that i do and would also usually be incredibly drunk. this was to the point when on the nights we didnt have sex it would be because we passed out on public transportation on the way home. im sure some of the times we had sex she could have called it rape, but she didn't because we both knew we were going to have sex when the evening started. im just saying, legally, it is a grey area

I'm confused, are you saying that when both of you were drunk and you were having sex with her that she didn't want to? Or that she was the kind of person who would falsely accuse you?

 

[THEDUDEofDestiny]

neither. i would never continue after someone had said no, and she was not the type of person to falsely accuse me. i am saying if she was the type of person, legally she could.i'd be acquitted, but she could have pressed charges.

 

[petite]

neither. i would never continue after someone had said no, and she was not the type of person to falsely accuse me. i am saying if she was the type of person, legally she could.i'd be acquitted, but she could have pressed charges.

Oh, I see what you're saying. Date rape is incredibly difficult to prove. Unless she has vaginal tearing or a witness or some other physical evidence that you have forced her, she could press charges but most likely you would be acquitted.

You're talking about a situation in which you would be innocent and falsely accused of date rape, which implies that you think that false accusations are the norm, but as the articles I posted earlier show, 6% of all the men self-reported one or more act of rape, and 4% reported an average of 5.8 acts each.

Approximately one out of every twenty men admitted to rape:

Rapists Who Don’t Think They’re Rapists - The Sexist - Washington City Paper

Rapists Admit Repeated Crimes — As Long As You Don't Call It "Rape" - Rape - Jezebel

 

[helgaleena]

There are billboards in my city and on the sides of buses:

"Consent isn't blurry. Get consent every time."

If someone is too out of it to consent, that is wrong right there. Morally if not legally.

 

[B_quietguy]

... an entire bar full of guys was around her hitting on her despite the fact that she had fallen over more than once. i grabbed her and basically carried her to a cab and took her home where i carried her from a cab to my bed and slept on the floor beside her. ...

Dude, you are a real gentleman for escorting her home safely. I hope she thanked you.

 

[dolfette]

Dude, you are a real gentleman for escorting her home safely. I hope she thanked you.

true. and needed to be said.

that's a cool thing to do.

 

[B_curiousme01]

Dude did a very honorable thing that usually does not happen. I have never heard a guy friend of mine ever say he did anything like that. A daugther of someone I work with went to a club with friends and got so drunk she could not stand up. One of her friends saw her leaving the club with a guy and followed. It turns out the bouncer did ask the guy if he knew the girl. He claimed she was his finance and he was taking her home. Her friend caught the tail end of the discussion and told them the guy was lying. He literally ran away. No one bothered to call the police to let them know what this guy was trying to do. He's still out there somewhere. What is really sad to me is putting ourselves in stupid situations and not learning from our mistakes. Getting rip, roaring drunk in public is dangerous for so many reasons.

this is just sad.
it makes me fuming angry that guys seeing being so drunk go into sexual predator mode.
it makes me very sad that a guy can carry a drunk girl out of a bar and have nobody challenge him.

i recall a few years ago, new guidelines were given to bouncers here. they were supposed to double check on any blind drunk girl leaving the club with a guy...just to make sure she was aware of the risks and he was aware he'd been clocked.

 

[dolfette]

i never, NEVER go out and get fall over drunk.
for one, it just looks trashy and undignified,
for two, it's potentially lethal.

 

[petite]

true. and needed to be said.

that's a cool thing to do.

Yes, and it's good that you said it!

Dude did a very honorable thing that usually does not happen. I have never heard a guy friend of mine ever say he did anything like that. A daugther of someone I work with went to a club with friends and got so drunk she could not stand up. One of her friends saw her leaving the club with a guy and followed. It turns out the bouncer did ask the guy if he knew the girl. He claimed she was his finance and he was taking her home. Her friend caught the tail end of the discussion and told them the guy was lying. He literally ran away. No one bothered to call the police to let them know what this guy was trying to do. He's still out there somewhere. What is really sad to me is putting ourselves in stupid situations and not learning from our mistakes. Getting rip, roaring drunk in public is dangerous for so many reasons.

i never, NEVER go out and get fall over drunk.
for one, it just looks trashy and undignified,
for two, it's potentially lethal.

I agree. When I became of drinking age, I was always extremely careful about how much I drank, keeping track of the time and how many I had per hour because I was so paranoid that a predator could try to take advantage of me. I didn't want to look or act drunk in public.

I haven't actually been out to a bar alone or without a group of friends in over a decade, so my safety in those situations is no longer an issue. I never liked hooking up in bars and I've never met someone in a bar and ended up in a relationship, just never happened. I prefer meeting men in coffeeshops where it's not too loud for an actual conversation and I can get to know someone. It's how I met TheBoyfriend.