disappearing threads

[B_Hickboy]

But it's so much fun to kick the chocks out from under the wheels!

 

[HellsKitchenmanNYC]

Wow this thread is a total tv movie. The jist I get is someone owns the site and does what he wants w/it. You can do that in America. The ToS i guess point that out. Still it's not fun to go to someones house for a party and they have tons of fine china and they invite like A BILLION people into their house and really expect them to not not break anything. Some people break a teacup, some people break a REALY big plate.
At that point there should be some negotiations as to how this is gonna all be repaired.
There are people that should be banned as their personality and posts change over time and get more virulent (no names).
In the last few months ALOT of $hit has gone down on this site, bannings, people leaving etc. People have posted that stuff isn't fair etc....
It's all comes down to you either deal w/it or you don't. Fascists like that.
IMHO I'm really surprised that JD got banned. For alot of reasons.

 

[2322]

The reason I pointed out the member in question is on Rob_E's friends list is because it was one of the reasons speculated for the apparent favoritism being shown to him. I don't feel I was slyly implying so much as trying to get the mod staff to understand how even little things like that can be given importance by some of the membership.

I hope that what I'm doing is illustrating how this situation is seen by people outside of the mod staff. I have already stated that I believe cigarbabe's banning is unfair. I'm not hiding anything here. When AE's thread was moved I openly posted a copy of it under my same username here, at the other place because I knew people were going to ask what happened, what was in it, and all sorts of things. Now people can see what it was that was moved and, perhaps, understand why when the mods defend the action. I think I did the membership a favor and I also think I did the mods a favor because people can judge for themselves what the situation is here.

I passionately want the administrators to understand how things are seen from our perspective so that things like the deal with Rob_E's friends list can be understood in the context in which it is mentioned. Some mods might dismiss it because they know that the friends list has absolutely no influence on mod action. The thing is the membership doesn't know that; hence the speculation. It's unwise to dismiss that speculation because it adds to the dificulties within the membership and the mod staff. It's always best to address any concerns in the most forthright and honest manner possible, even those that might seem ridiculous to management.

Remember the whole Proctor & Gamble thing with their rather odd logo of the moon and the 13 stars? There's been a rumor for decades that the logo is actually a satanic sign. That might seem ridiculous to Proctor & Gamble, but any inquiry about that logo is always answered by a polite letter from Proctor & Gamble explaining the origin of the logo because the PR people at Proctor & Gamble know very well that clear and transparent answers are best for business. This is also why PR directors always answer directly to the CEO of a business. When everyone else in the rooom decides that sweeping something under the rug or staying silent is the best policy, the PR director has to be the person to stand-up and warn the CEO of how these actions may be negatively perceived by the public (which includes customers, suppliers, government, employees, and media) and possibly damaging the company's business. What I say may be unpopular or even outlandish, yet it's a reflection of what I know to be issues among at least some of the membership.

Think about it. This site has spawned an entire other site at least partially devoted to criticising this one. How many sites manage to do that? That's a public relations failure and I'm trying very hard to prevent any more of those by working to help the administrators here understand where members are coming from when they're confronted with incongruous situations. Communication, open, honest, and direct, is key to helping achieve that goal.

 

[HellsKitchenmanNYC]

Jason I don't think alot of us have to preach to the choir. Most folks can see what's going on no?

 

[Meniscus]

I have been warned twice about taking two specific trolls to task, and I got temp-banned another time for taking another (obviously recycled) troll to task. In the end, they have all shown their true colors and have been permanently banned. But with all the veil of secrecy that some of the mods seem to enjoy, the appearance to the general membership is that trolls tend to be favored over long-standing, well-respected members. Whether that's the case or not, that's the appearance.

I for one have never had the impression that the mods favor trolls over the general membership. As far as I can tell, the trolls always seem to get permanently banned in the long run because, as with the two you mention, they eventually show their true colors. Thus I've never understood why anyone would choose to engage them and risk getting themselves banned for harrassment. If you think someone has broken the TOS, report them and let the mods do their job.

The moderating and administrative teams could, without divulging any sensitive information, make a whole lot of what they do a whole lot more transparent. In the long run, that would prevent a whole lot of grief and discontent.

I don't know quite what you have in mind, but the value of such transparency is debatable. And I'm guessing that it has been debated, at length, by the folks in charge. In any case, the decision has been made, and we've been told over and over again that there will be no such transparency. With a few exceptions, that's not how the owner/mods/admins think things should be done. You're free to disagree with them, but they are also entitled to their opinions, and it's their decision.

I fail to understand why for so many members it has failed to sink in that no matter how much you think more transparency regarding the mods actions is a good idea, the powers that be simply don't agree with you. It's not a matter of you being right and them being wrong. You have an opinion, they have a different opinion. They've heard your concerns. They've spent a lot of time and effort trying to address your concerns. You may not like or agree with their responses, but it's pointless to debate them further. In the end you've failed to convince them and they've failed to convince you. They've made it clear that things aren't going to change so let's move on to some more productive and enjoyable topics.

It's been jammed in my face several times that "it's Rob's site, he can do what he wants to."

Sorry if it felt like I was doing that. The point I'm trying to make isn't just that Rob can do what wants, but that Rob has reasons for running the site the way he does. I'm sure he thinks he's right just as strongly as you think you're right. Again, you may not like or agree with they way he's decided to run things, but in the end you have to accept that this is the way the site is. Then you have to decide it you want to stick around and enjoy what the site has to offer, or if you would rather spend your time somewhere else.

 

[2322]

Jason I don't think alot of us have to preach to the choir. Most folks can see what's going on no?

I really and honestly don't know.

 

[Gillette]

Jason, your last post definitely helps to clarify for me where you were coming from, thank you.

I apologize and retract my earlier implication of your intent.

Yes, the lack of transparency has always been a problem. You're preaching to the choir there.

If you're curious about my feelings on it you can read them here.

Post #s 2, 22, 23, 28 & 29.

These posts were made three months before I became a moderator and my stance hasn't changed one iota.

That covers bannings. Thread removal is another story. If a thread is harassing in nature it should be removed, but by removing it from view we appear to be all cloak and daggerish. It's a no win.

Leave the thread - we're percieved to be favoring the harasser by allowing the harassment to remain.

Remove the thread - we're percieved to be favoring the harassed by protecting them from whatever the intended purpose of the thread was.

Even if we did post "thread removed for harassment" these question threads will persist because people will want to know more.

"Who started it?"
"Who was it about?"
"What did they say about them?"
"I have to see it for myself or I won't believe you."

Always.

Even when they already have the full story.

 

[DC_DEEP]

"Stupid Title"

*this thread has been moved for moderator consideration.*

or

*this thread has been removed due to harassing content*


What problems do you see there, meniscus? That seems transparent enough to me, and I don't see how it could possibly seem as cloak-and-dagger as a simple disappearance, nor do I see how it could possibly be construed as divulging too much information. Somethimes moderators leave an explanation when they lock a thread, sometimes not. I'm not sure how this would be much different.

 

[AlteredEgo]

Alright, I'll bite. Not sure if this will get me in trouble or not, but here goes.

Yes, AlteredEgo intended the thread for public eyes. We, however, did not think that it was necessary and moved it to the moderator forum. If she has an issue with a member on the board, she can come to us about it, no reason to start a "call out" thread. It would be nice if some of our members could have some faith in us. We are handling situations, we do not ignore problems. Sometimes it takes a little longer to come to a conclusion, but that's what happens when you have several moderators included in a lengthy discussion about which would be the best possible course of action to take for the forum. If any of you feel that a situation is not being handled in the best possible way, or at all, feel free to PM us about the situation and we'll see to it that we inform you as best as we can as to what's going on. At the VERY least, we can tell you whether or not it's being taken care of/looked at/talked about.

From a member viewpoint, and no longer speaking as a moderator, I think that what AE did was mildly immature. I've had issues with people on this board too, but never found it necessary (nor constructive) to call them out on the public forum. There are better ways of dealing with people than stooping down to their level.

I deliberately copied a post which was originally authored by a former member, Snoozan, and which she posted at another site. In my thread, I quoted her clearly, and added commentary. In my commentary, I acknowledged that I was willfully breaking the rules here, and expected to be disciplined.

I was not surprised when i received a warning, I was not surprised that the thread evaporated. In fact, immediately after posting it, I noted the time, and since I was leaving my house, asked members of that other site to start the countdown to removal. I'm told it was gone in minutes, proving the moderator team is capable of better than they give. A certain link should have been removed INSTANTLY from this site the day it was first brought to the attention of moderators, and it was not. Like it or not, the team let us down.

I know personally that some things DO NOT require discussion before action was taken. In the past, I've seen a harassment-based, permanent banning occur within hours of a member joining, and with only one moderator awake and online. I know what is possible, and it didn't happen in this case. I know the moderators were already aware of the situation.

While I was disappointed by the inaction on this matter, it worked to further my own ends. I wanted you-know-who to get into trouble here, sure, but that was the smallest item on my agenda. For me, it was more important that he delete the harassing photos, and libelous words posted on the site to which he linked. He was abusing at least three LPSG members there, and one in particular for whom I was willing to go to bat. I suspected he would begin to pull the content if I mentioned it here. When I mentioned at the other place that I was saving images of his page on my computer in case of future litigation, he began editing the content, making it gentler. By the time I got home the day I started that thread, He'd deleted all of it. Ultimately, that was my goal. His suspension here was just icing.

In the future, if you don't want that type of thread to be created, move when people write to you. I didn't feel the need to write personally to any moderators because several of you had already been contacted about the matter and DONE NOTHING! I accomplished in minutes what none of you even so much as requested from the guilty party over a SPAN OF DAYS!

Again, though, I don't want to take credit for the brilliant writing, which was done by Snoozan.