Ethnic Groups

MorganaDrake

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Gisella said:
:kiss: Morgana! Morgana!!!

How wonderful U tell me more and give me details for me to preper to go there, ok?

Ah! I went to DC and to Museum of Native Americans too...was the only museum that i have curiosity to visit there...

(About the Wounded Knee Massacre is like the Valley of the tears and the Cherokee roses on the ground?)

I hope the younger generation never ever stop to tell stories...

:hug: Thank U Morgana :wink:

Well, let's see. Pine Ridge is one of the poorest areas of the united states. The average household income is less than 4,000. The reservation also has one of the highest, if not the highest, infant mortality rates in the country, and the average life expectancy is right around 50 for both men and women. The reservation is home to about 20,000 Natives. The north side of the reservation borders the Bad Lands. Which, the indians consider sacred. They, to this day, are still fighting to be given back the Bad Lands. In fact, the government tried to pay them, and they have yet to accept the money, so it is in a trust fund. There are a lot, A LOT of homeless people on the reservation. Although the land is beautiful in its own right, the rolling hills which seem to rise and meet the sky are breathtaking, there isn't really any farmable land. Which is a big problem for the reservation. They cannot provide for all the people living there. As for my advice when visiting the reservation, go early, leave before dark. When I went, one of the social workers (who was a member of the tribe) on the reservation told the group I was with not to linger once it was dark. The reason she gave for this was that the drunks would be out. I almost cringed at her saying that...because it really does fill a stereotype about Native Americans.

About Wounded Knee Massacre, it took place in 1891 right along Wounded Knee Creek. I could get into what led up to it, but i think I'll just jump to the end. The military had forced a couple hundred Natives (men, women and children and the 200 is a rough estimate) to surrender. All the natives were searched and anything that could be used as weapons were taken. There was one Native (If memory serves me right, he was deaf or blind) that refused to give up his gun. He had bought it himself and he wanted the military to pay him for it. Somewhere in the struggle to hold onto the gun, a shot was fired. This led to the massacre of the Natives. Afterwards, they were buried in a mass grave. Also, it was winter when this happened, some of the Indians who refused to give themselves over to the military got away, and another couple hundred (rough estimate) Natives perished because of the cold weather or starvation. Seeing the Wounded Knee Massacre monument site was one of the most overwhelming emotional experiences I have ever had. It was almost as if you could feel the history, the pain all around. You'll find that right around the site (bottom of the hill across the road), there where be a "visitor's center" but basically it looks like some logs tossed up, and something strung across them just to shelter the Natives from the weather. If you ran into who the group I was with ran into, you'll meet a young Native called Casey (forget his last name). He'll try to sell you some bead work, but he was also talk to you about the history of the land. So definately listen to him if you get a chance. He was a magnifient storyteller.

Another tip before I forget to mention this, don't take pictures of things like the Wounded Knee site. This is a sacred site to the Indians and it's considered disrespectful to take pictures of it. You may also want to ask the Natives before taking pictures of them as well.

Well, this is all I can think to tell you. If you have any more questions, just message me or something. :) Hope this helps.
 

Gisella

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MorganaDrake said:
Well, let's see. Pine Ridge is one of the poorest areas of the united states. The average household income is less than 4,000. The reservation also has one of the highest, if not the highest, infant mortality rates in the country, and the average life expectancy is right around 50 for both men and women. The reservation is home to about 20,000 Natives. The north side of the reservation borders the Bad Lands. Which, the indians consider sacred. They, to this day, are still fighting to be given back the Bad Lands. In fact, the government tried to pay them, and they have yet to accept the money, so it is in a trust fund. There are a lot, A LOT of homeless people on the reservation. Although the land is beautiful in its own right, the rolling hills which seem to rise and meet the sky are breathtaking, there isn't really any farmable land. Which is a big problem for the reservation. They cannot provide for all the people living there. As for my advice when visiting the reservation, go early, leave before dark. When I went, one of the social workers (who was a member of the tribe) on the reservation told the group I was with not to linger once it was dark. The reason she gave for this was that the drunks would be out. I almost cringed at her saying that...because it really does fill a stereotype about Native Americans.

About Wounded Knee Massacre, it took place in 1891 right along Wounded Knee Creek. I could get into what led up to it, but i think I'll just jump to the end. The military had forced a couple hundred Natives (men, women and children and the 200 is a rough estimate) to surrender. All the natives were searched and anything that could be used as weapons were taken. There was one Native (If memory serves me right, he was deaf or blind) that refused to give up his gun. He had bought it himself and he wanted the military to pay him for it. Somewhere in the struggle to hold onto the gun, a shot was fired. This led to the massacre of the Natives. Afterwards, they were buried in a mass grave. Also, it was winter when this happened, some of the Indians who refused to give themselves over to the military got away, and another couple hundred (rough estimate) Natives perished because of the cold weather or starvation. Seeing the Wounded Knee Massacre monument site was one of the most overwhelming emotional experiences I have ever had. It was almost as if you could feel the history, the pain all around. You'll find that right around the site (bottom of the hill across the road), there where be a "visitor's center" but basically it looks like some logs tossed up, and something strung across them just to shelter the Natives from the weather. If you ran into who the group I was with ran into, you'll meet a young Native called Casey (forget his last name). He'll try to sell you some bead work, but he was also talk to you about the history of the land. So definately listen to him if you get a chance. He was a magnifient storyteller.

Another tip before I forget to mention this, don't take pictures of things like the Wounded Knee site. This is a sacred site to the Indians and it's considered disrespectful to take pictures of it. You may also want to ask the Natives before taking pictures of them as well.

Well, this is all I can think to tell you. If you have any more questions, just message me or something. :) Hope this helps.

Thank u very much Morgana...for sure will message you with more question...

Well, Brazilian Native Indian peoples have kind of same problems as here: alchoolism , diabetes, poverty drepression, suicide...its very sad and social workers there say that mothers & kids 9or just kids) go hide in the woods when Dad comes home drunk, because of abuse and etc...they hide until he is "well"

Its very hard on Native people nostalgy kind of thing of their relationship they have with nature, way of life and etc...and i think that there is something in their bodies that react very bad to alchool and lots of processed food and they drink and eat a lot because they are depressed...some of them do not own land to plant and etc...

Ops...sorry :hijacked:
 

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thenewmag said:
I was just wondering what is the percentage of the different ethnic groups on this site.

Hard to say, we don't keep track of that.
 

Gisella

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Stronzo said:
I agree Gisella.

I love to walk among the English in the Lake District and in Cornwall and Devon and ask them about their traditions and customs.

Well...good for u Stronzo.

But for me...

I cant say English are "fascinating" (no way) because they wrote history...:rolleyes: and they may wrote it very wrong...they had to much to say at some point in history...well, they are colonizadores...like other peoples were...:rolleyes:

Well, some English people are interesting and made great contribuitions but they are not "fascinating" in my view...
 

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Gisella said:
Well...good for u Stronzo.

But for me...

I cant say English are "fascinating" (no way) because they wrote history...:rolleyes: and they may wrote it very wrong...they had to much to say at some point in history...well, they are colonizadores...like other peoples were...:rolleyes:

That's totally erroneous. And stop bashing my nationality please.

The English didn't 'write history', they simply participated in most of it. What part did they 'get wrong' in their telling of their own history??

It's the Americans who fucked up Native American history and lied.

The Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, French and most lately the AMERICANS are equally 'colonizadores'... Let's get honest. Why don't you take issue with them too?

Human nature appears to need a pecking order. You know, "survival of the fittest" all that?:rolleyes:

I realize you think it's cool to "English-bash" but it's offensive to me since I happen to be of English descent. It's no more acceptable than me bashing Native Americans much as you may think otherwise.
 

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I am also a bit of a mutt:tongue: I have Irish,Jewish,Croatian,Mexican,German,English and Greek blood running through my veins:smile: My fiance and baby's daddy(heee hee,I had to say that!)is 100% East Indian:rolleyes: His parents both came to the US ten years before he was born:smile: So our baby will be an Irish/Jewish/Croatian/Mexican/German/English Indian:tongue:
 

Gisella

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Stronzo said:
Thanks totally erroneous. And stop bashing my nationality please.

The English didn't 'write history', they simply participated in most of it. What part did they 'get wrong' in their telling of their own history??

It's the Americans who fucked up Native American history and lied.

The Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, French and most lately the AMERICANS are equally 'colonizadores'... Let's get honest. Why don't you take issue with them too?

Human nature appears to need a pecking order. You know, "survival of the fittest" all that?:rolleyes:

I realize you think it's cool to "English-bash" but it's offensive to me since I happen to be of English descent. It's not more acceptable than me bashing Native Americans much as you may think otherwise.

Excuse me Stronzo...dont be nervous...but English are not fascinating people to me...

The problem i have with them is not the way they wrote their own history...but other peoples history...yep! How they treat the natives of the lands they colonize...native people of US, Australia and etc...they wanted to "civilize" the "brutes" "naturals" and etc...

I will never defend the Portuguese or my European ancestry as colonizadores...well, maybe in some things but not the "bad" things they did!
 

rawbone8

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Rather than mess up a perfectly fun thread, why not agree that GREED can reside within any nation and when opportunity arises most of the powerful take advantage. As for writing history, it is generally true that the victors present their version to the exclusion of other points of view. As in the common fatuous lesson taught to most North American school children "Columbus Discovered America."

Stronzo — I'd be worried if after a family resides since 1690 in North America that one's "nationality" is still English. Lighten up. :confused:
 

B_Stronzo

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Gisella said:
Excuse me Stronzo...dont be nervous...but English are not fascinating people to me...
You're excused. But allow me to correct you. I'm not 'nervous'. I'm offended. Oddly you let all the others off the hook when it was the Portuguese and Spanish who initiated subjugation of the indigenous peoples of the Americas. :33:

The problem i have with them is not the way they wrote their own history...but other peoples history...yep! How they treat the natives of the lands they colonize...native people of US, Australia and etc...they wanted to "civilize" the "brutes" "naturals" and etc...
Do you take equal issue with the Conquistadors (for example) who were of Spanish descent for enslaving the Incas and Mayas or is this "English-specific"?

I will never defend the Portuguese or my European ancestry as colonizadores...well, maybe in some things but not the "bad" things they did!

Oh good. But you do seem to single out the English. Remember the Portuguese 'wrote their own history' too. One day read about the colonization of Brazil before you get all over the English about the "rewriting of history".
Just so you know? I have nothing pro or con to say about Native American culture. I, like you with the English, don't find them very interesting.
 

palicao

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i'm totally italian, at least for the 3-4 generation i could check for
too bad >.> i want to be of mixed bloood XD

btw i'm 100% geek. does it count as an ethnic group? :biggrin1:
 

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rawbone8 said:
Stronzo — I'd be worried if after a family resides since 1690 in North America that one's "nationality" is still English. Lighten up. :confused:

Why would that worry you? It's my ancestral nationality and my heritage of which I'm as proud as, I suspect, you are yours.

The hell I'll 'lighten up'.

In a comparative way were I to bash Italian Americans (for example) or people of Irish American descent the board would descend on me. You 'lighten up'.

** for all my generational American descent I certainly don't identify with things "American" these days. On that you may rely.
 

rawbone8

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Stronzo

Simply put, my nationality is Canadian, yours is American.

You undoubtedly have as much pride in your ancestry. I respect that. No offense intended on that front.

I don't understand why an American would feel slighted or a sense of outrage or the need to defend the honour or reputation of a nation against which they fought a bloody revolutionary war of independence.
 

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Stronzo said:
You're excused. But allow me to correct you. I'm not 'nervous'. I'm offended. Oddly you let all the others off the hook when it was the Portuguese and Spanish who initiated subjugation of the indigenous peoples of the Americas. :33:

Do you take equal issue with the Conquistadors (for example) who were of Spanish descent for enslaving the Incas and Mayas or is this "English-specific"?



Oh good. But you do seem to single out the English. Remember the Portuguese 'wrote their own history' too. One day read about the colonization of Brazil before you get all over the English about the "rewriting of history".
Just so you know? I have nothing pro or con to say about Native American culture. I, like you with the English, don't find them very interesting.

Sorry for offending you Stronzo!

I said English and others colonizadores...yes all colonizadores! Agree for sure Spanish were very sangrentos/bloodys ...and Portuguese did wrong too...

But im talking about English because im in USA and we were talking about Native Americans first and we have many more things wrote by English than others...they were/are more organized in put things on paper as we know....:biggrin1: and Hollywood still makemore movies about the lands colonized by England for sure...

Yesterday i watch "The New World" movie too...beware.
 

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Gisella said:
Excuse me Stronzo...dont be nervous...but English are not fascinating people to me...

The problem i have with them is not the way they wrote their own history...but other peoples history...yep! How they treat the natives of the lands they colonize...native people of US, Australia and etc...they wanted to "civilize" the "brutes" "naturals" and etc...

I will never defend the Portuguese or my European ancestry as colonizadores...well, maybe in some things but not the "bad" things they did!

Come on Gisella, this is beneath you.

Almost all modern nations have blood on the hands and I think few citzens of those nations are honestly proud of many acts of their ancestors but tarring entire nations by the acts of what were mainly politicians, relgious zealots and the military is as unfair as it is narrow minded.

Im not trying to defend it but in 'general' the main aim of British colonisation was economic and as a rule we avoided interfering in local traditions unless they were at variance with economic exploitation, it wasn't generally about supressing the 'brutes'. Other nations had diferent colonial imperatives and levels of brutality, the Spanish and Portuguese being especially brutalistic.

Like it or not part of your heritage is rooted in Portuguese colonialism, you may not like it but you can't deny or hide from it and saying you don't approve of what the Portugese did doesn't change it. We have to live with the same baggage so don't think that condemning what the Portuguese did absolves you and then allows you to condemn us for what our ancestors did.

Righ now, the Brazlian Government is systematically allowing and participating in the rape and destruction of the Amazonian rainforest and who knows what the global consequences of that may be. In the process they are indrectly but knowingly condemning numerous species to extinction. They are also sending ancient human tribes and their customs into oblivion, sociologically or literally. I know you live in the US now Gisella but before you condemn us 'former colonisers' check your own back yard.

Saying the English (or whoever) are not interesting is about as valid as saying all American are ignorant and fat. The English people you have met you may not have found interesting maybe, and maybe you just met the wrong ones. I have met some uninteresting Brazilians and Americans too you know.:tongue:
 

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dong20 said:
Come on Gisella, this is beneath you.

Almost all modern nations have blood on the hands and I think few citzens of those nations are honestly proud of many acts of their ancestors but tarring entire nations by the acts of what were mainly politicians, relgious zealots and the military is as unfair as it is narrow minded.

Im not trying to defend it but in 'general' the main aim of British colonisation was economic and as a rule we avoided interfering in local traditions unless they were at variance with economic exploitation, it wasn't generally about supressing the 'brutes'. Other nations had diferent colonial imperatives and levels of brutality, the Spanish and Portuguese being especially brutalistic.

Like it or not part of your heritage is rooted in Portuguese colonialism, you may not like it but you can't deny or hide from it and saying you don't approve of what the Portugese did doesn't change it. We have to live with the same baggage so don't think that condemning what the Portuguese did absolves you and then allows you to condemn us for what our ancestors did.

Righ now, the Brazlian Government is systematically allowing and participating in the rape and destruction of the Amazonian rainforest and who knows what the global consequences of that may be. In the process they are indrectly but knowingly condemning numerous species to extinction. They are also sending ancient human tribes and their customs into oblivion, sociologically or literally. I know you live in the US now Gisella but before you condemn us 'former colonisers' check your own back yard.

Saying the English (or whoever) are not interesting is about as valid as saying all American are ignorant and fat. The English people you have met you may not have found interesting maybe, and maybe you just met the wrong ones. I have met some uninteresting Brazilians and Americans too you know.:tongue:

Yep, you are right and i will not defend Brazilian too...or any other nation that do wrong and terrible things!!!

We do still have Native people leaving in their own lands and nobody know their languages too...The owners of "madeireiras" take natives from their lands, there are conflicts between land owners and natives...many many problems in a corruption nation of mine...for sure.

Still, i do not find English culture "fascinating" as i said...and do find some English interesting and some that made great contribuitions...

Again, "fascinating" is not a word that would describe English to me...

But still i find "Brazilians" fascinating...not because im Brazilian...:wink:

What can i say? I have the right to find people that i choose as fascinating...or not?
 

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Gisella said:
Sorry for offending you Stronzo!

I said English and others colonizadores...yes all colonizadores! Agree for sure Spanish were very sangrentos/bloodys ...and Portuguese did wrong too...

But im talking about English because im in USA and we were talking about Native Americans first and we have many more things wrote by English than others...they were/are more organized in put things on paper as we know....:biggrin1: and Hollywood still makemore movies about the lands colonized by England for sure...

Yesterday i watch "The New World" movie too...beware.

Just a point that may, or may not be relevant. I believe in the 1500's it was a Spanish ship that landed down in Florida (this would be the earliest known contact between Native Americans of the USA and Europeans), who then came onto land, only to kill of massive amounts of Natives. BTW, it was named La Florida by the captain of the ship. The captain was Ponce De Leon, who had sailed with Columbus a couple decades before. And he came in search of precious metals as well as a mythical fountain of youth (hot springs) he had heard of. (about 20 years earlier Columbus landed in what is now modern day Dominican republic) De Leon returned a few years later to colonize one of the tribes. On this return trip, DeLeon became sick, and the illness was caught by native americans. Whole villages were wiped out because of it. Needless to say, DeLeon did not make it home alive, he died as a result of being shot by the remaining natives, who had basically chased DeLeon and his crew off the land. Of course, you'll be hard pressed to find this information unless you find a book that's about pre-contact with the Natives. Most accounts will be glorified accounts stressing that DeLeon found Florida, etc.

Whole tribes have been wiped out as a result of the brutality of those that tried to colonize them. Whole tribes have been wiped out as a result of the illnesses Europeans brought over.

As for who colonized the natives, while the British were certainly the most brutal IMHO, the Spanish and the French did their fair share as well.

Just thought I'd toss this out there for the sake of debate.
 

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Gisella said:
Yep, you are right and i will not defend Brazilian too...or any other nation that do wrong and terrible things!!!

Doesn't leave many to like...:tongue:

Gisella said:
We do still have Native people leaving in their own lands and nobody know their languages too...The owners of "madeireiras" take natives from their lands, there are conflicts between land owners and natives...many many problems in a corruption nation of mine...for sure.

The problem is that most people are unaware of most of the things governments do in their name!!

Gisella said:
Still, i do not find English culture "fascinating" as i said...and do find some English interesting and some that made great contribuitions...

Again, "fascinating" is not a word that would describe English to me...

Brazilians and their history don't hold a great fascination for me..but that doesn't mean I think Brazilians are 'uninteresting' which I think is what Stronzo and me were saying.

Gisella said:
But still i find "Brazilians" fascinating...not because im Brazilian...:wink:

I believe you....:rolleyes: I find Spanish and African history fascinating too.

Gisella said:
What can i say? I have the right to find people that i choose as fascinating...or not?

Of course you do but, so does everyone..just don't be offended should that happen not to include Brazil OK....:biggrin1: