Infidelity

[Principessa]

Careful...that parallel only goes so far. I'm pretty much live-and-let-live with most things, but people who adulterate a single-malt with club soda should be tarred, feathered, and pilloried. :yup:

Eeeww! :yuck: That's worse than people who put pineapple and ham on pizza.

In seventeen years of common-law marriage I never cheated on my wife. Even during the last two years when we had no sex at all. I'm really proud of myself for not straying during that bad period, even though there are always ample opportunities for sex in this world.

I even had a moral dilemma about thinking about other people while masturbating! Is it an unfaithful act to fantasize about sex with a person other than your husband or wife while rubbing one out? (I was a bit fucked up at the time) I think that for some the answer could be yes. I'd like to hear NJ's or Ms. Teacher's answer. For me I figured- "I'm only human for christsakes" and got over it.

Well to be honest my opinion doesn't matter but I though we were supposed to fantasize about someone else during masturbation?! I'm not just saying that because I do it. I am saying that based on the fact I know very few people who think about their SO when pleasuring themselves. The exception to that might be having phone sex with your SO and thinking about them at that time.

Oh, I should say both women know I am a bisexual man. The first one knows that when the right type of guy comes along, I do go for it. The second one would have a problem with it I think.

I don't think I would have a problem dating a bi guy as long as he was nice and able to be monogamous. Not seeing other women is fine but seeing other guys is cheating in my book.

Sometimes I wish I was married again. It's much less complicated!

Well... As to the absolutism of NJQT....I don't think anyone who has not been in a 15 year or longer committed relationship can actually even answer the question posed.

So the 12 years I was with my last serious boyfriend doesn't give me the right to weigh in on this? BULLSHIT!

I mean... they can tell you what they "believe" they will do... but until they have had the relationship that has lasted long enough to experience the ennui and resentment that often sets in in a long term relationship...they really are just talking out their ass.

In a relationship between good people with good intentions...Its not infidelity that breaks you up...Its the actions, and lack of actions, in other areas that create the breach. Infidelity is often just a symptom.

That is the only thing you have said which makes sense.

According to John Gray, It is often the little things which over time will break up a marriage. Many marriages can survive an infidelity or the death of a child or even a traumatic injury or debilitative disease. What many marriages do not survive is the wet towels on the floor, squeezing the toothpaste from the middle, putting olive oil in the refrigerator or financial difficulties.

 

[D_Roland_D_Hay]

Why bother being in a relationship if you can't be faithful? My life is too busy to be in a relationship and have another on the side...for me it is all or nothing!

 

[Phil Ayesho]

You know, Phil, you say a lot of wise things around here, and I tend to agree with what you just posted...but I really wish you wouldn't begin your remarks with things like this...
It comes across as really pompous and condescending...which doesn't really jive with the tone of the rest of your message, so it's a really poor introduction for what you had to say. Just state your piece and let the audience decide on its merits.

Well, Hazel, I am not responsible for the fact that, to you, the voice of age and experience sounds pompous or arrogant.

But really... people who have lived longer might have insights that younger people do not...
My comments were not meant to be absolutist... I was actually decrying the absolutism of others...



The fact of the matter is that, when I was young, and the longest relationship I had ever had was 2 years... I used to think in absolute terms, too.
I used to think I would NEVER cheat... and that anyone who did was dead wrong.


And then life happened.

I have watched a LOT of great relationships go sour... it takes a decade or more... but it happens...

I have seen lovers who started out with such passion and devotion devolve into those couples that snipe at each other relentlessly.

I have sat in my car, crying, because I had to drive home to someone who was going to treat me dreadfully no matter how hard I worked, no matter how much I loved them.
No matter how good and faithful a man I was.


Chances are... if you are in a relationship thats 1 year old and cheating on them, either you're an asshole or with the wrong person.

With decades of living together, though... things become murkier.


And I will tell you that I know a lot of people in their 50s who have been alone all their lives... never had a relationship longer than a year or two... had lots of short ones... and practically none...

They all have one or more of the following traits... they are unbending in the demands they make of others... they want someone that doesn't exist... they are judgmental and condemning...or they are only attracted to people who will mistreat them.

At some point... if you are still alone...( and don't want to be) you need to look at the reasons as not being entirely exterior to you...


As to "imposing my time schedule on others"...

I don't think anyone who HASN'T climbed Everest is qualified to tell you how THEY would handle the climb.

They can tell you what they think... they can tell you what their ideals and goals might be....

But they can't tell you how they would actually do when they are on the South Col and the weather goes bad.

Its not meant to be arrogant or condescending...

Just the fact that you don't really know how you will handle something you have never been thu.

 

[christina]

Phil u r so right!!

 

[Phil Ayesho]

I will clarify that the "15 year" number was somewhat arbitrary.

I was simply meaning to indicate the length of relationship that would be considered "long term"

Some folks can sour a relationship in far fewer years than that...

But any couple together 15 years or more... have been thru SEVERAL changes...

Have seen good times go bad... and then back to good... more than once.


In short... it wasn't meant as a yardstick nor a formula...

Just saying that someone who's been thru 15 years more marriage has experience you can not even guess at having only gone thru 5.

and Couples together 40 years have climbed a peak of which I have only seen the foothills.

I would not deign to judge how they managed something I have yet to do.

 

[B_lamdellboo]

No.

If you're not happy/satisfied, why not just peace out? It'll hurt less in the end.
I agree with rico27 here.

 

[cm70874]

So I hope I read and understood the question properly. So have I cheated.... Yes.. is it wrong...No. I always believe peeps do things for a good reason. I cheated because my reltationship was going through a really bad spot. I tried the whole talking it out thing, but if both (my ex) aren't willing to give an effort then you can't have the poopy face when you get played. I did take his feelings into consideration after the fact by telling him what happened and promptly ending the relationship. I always felt that cheating is a way of telling individuals that its time to move on and let that other person go.

 

[Phil Ayesho]

No.

If you're not happy/satisfied, why not just peace out? It'll hurt less in the end.
I agree with rico27 here.

yeah... that will work...

for a year or two...


In the greatest love you will ever know... there will be years of sorrow.


ASK a couple who have beat the odds and still love each other in the golden years after 30 years together...

The difference is in how you manage to NOT take a powder.

Long term love is not all about happy chat and hot sex... and moving on the minute it gets hard.

When you take those vows... its why they put in the "for better, and for worse"


Cause if you stick it out... you will see both.

 

[snoozan]

yeah... that will work...

for a year or two...


In the greatest love you will ever know... there will be years of sorrow.


ASK a couple who have beat the odds and still love each other in the golden years after 30 years together...

The difference is in how you manage to NOT take a powder.

Long term love is not all about happy chat and hot sex... and moving on the minute it gets hard.

When you take those vows... its why they put in the "for better, and for worse"


Cause if you stick it out... you will see both.

I'm agreeing with most of what you're saying, actually. I like the mountain analogy, and now that I understand that 15 years was sort of a number you just threw out there, I agree that those who have been in 2 year or 3 year relationships don't see what it's like 10 years down the road. I don't understand what 10 more will bring. And on. The best advice you can get about marriage and infidelity is probably from your grandparents, if they stayed married.

 

[westy30004]

BTW...Phil enjoy your posts.

Married 16 years here...dated for three years prior..."cheated" on her within six months of the marriage...one night stand with old girlfriend....nothing but recreational sex for me....confessed to her and she forgave me...currently, our marriage is one most couples would die for and has been for the last 15 years....sex is off the chain...I would rather spend a weekend at home with her than a week in Vegas with 10 of my college buddies...and I would climb over 50 of the twenty year old versions of my wife to get to one that is forty years old and just like the one I will share a bed with tonight...thank God she didn't kick me to the curb and gave me a second chance....

also, settle down everybody and don't be so confrontational...life is too short....

 

[D_Ivana Dickenside]

Why bother being in a relationship if you can't be faithful? My life is too busy to be in a relationship and have another on the side...for me it is all or nothing!

i definitely agree with you, rico :grinning-smiley-003

i feel the same way as well... all or nothing. i absolutely love being single, woohoooo!!

:crazy: *does happy dance*

 

[browser50]

Oh my, Where to begin.
Yes I have.
Justification-I have none.

Now: What have I learned.
1-It can hurt the one you love, and it can hurt you.
2-Usually there is some issue that needs to be worked on.
3-Men substitute/confuse sex with being intimate.
4-Women cheating usually means a lost connection need to get it back. and male partner just not getting it.
5-Men something is not right, but have no idea.
6-There is just the thing, you are are OH MY can I jump your bones. Not ready to think about getting involved.
7-You are involved-not feeling appreciated, loved or maybe just not getting the "hey sexy" .... be careful it is a double edged sword.

 

[Principessa]

]Why bother being in a relationship if you can't be faithful? My life is too busy to be in a relationship and have another on the side...for me it is all or nothing![/b]

Thank you!

No.

If you're not happy/satisfied, why not just peace out? It'll hurt less in the end. I agree with rico27 here.

Yup, :yup: me too.

So I hope I read and understood the question properly. So have I cheated.... Yes.. is it wrong...No. I always believe peeps do things for a good reason. I cheated because my reltationship was going through a really bad spot. I tried the whole talking it out thing, but if both (my ex) aren't willing to give an effort then you can't have the poopy face when you get played. I did take his feelings into consideration after the fact by telling him what happened and promptly ending the relationship.

I always felt that cheating is a way of telling individuals that its time to move on and let that other person go.

Why not just let the urge to cheat be the indicator that it's time to move on and let the other person go?

 

[D_Kaye Throttlebottom]

Animals aren't monogamous but they don't have emotional attachments and ties like humans. A human brain is far more evolved. Let's not in any way put ourselves back in the animal kingdom.

Have to interject that's not accurate, there are instances that Comparitive human psychology and ethology address this ... and with regard to sexuality and monogamy, the common misgeneralization is that all animals are not monogamous. It's not true.

Wolves are monogamous, so are foxes, birds, ducks, geese, lynx, mountain lions...to name a few.

I only make this point - because comparing animals and human sexually as one is promiscuous and the other monogamous is an overused generalization...as generalized as the "all men cheat", etc. I don't think that's true, either.

.. as for my take on it..

I had a sexual relationship with a man that had a wife that I was not witting of - in another state. There was a pregnancy - and that's when he told me about it. I was devestated and the whole situation was traumatic. Life-changing, traumatic. I have a low tolerance for someone that romanticizes or rationalizes infidelity...even though logically I can understand how people gravitate toward it, their own insecurety, doubt, thrill, etc. that isn't settled in themselves or who they are with their spouse. I could not consent to it for any reason.

 

[The Dragon]

Have to interject that's not accurate, there are instances that Comparitive human psychology and ethology have merits, but with regard to sexuality and monogamy, saying animals are not, is a generalization.

Wolves are monogamous, so are foxes, birds, ducks, geese, lynx, mountain lions...to name a few.

I only bring it up as a generalization to compare animals and humans, is a lot like the generalization that all men cheat, etc. I don't think that's true either...I've yet to meet him, but just my take.

.. as for my take on it..

I had a sexual relationship with a man that had a wife - in another state, unbeknownst to me. There was a pregnancy - and that's when he told me about it. I was devestated and the whole situation was traumatic. Life-changing, traumatic. I have a low tolerance for someone that romanticizes or rationalizes infidelity...even though logically I can understand how people gravitate toward it, their own insecurety, doubt, thrill, etc. that isn't settled in themselves or who they are with their spouse. I could not consent to it for any reason.

Sorry Zoe, the paragraph that you quoted was actually written by Ms.Teacher.

The bottom paragraph was my reply to her.

 

[D_Kaye Throttlebottom]

Sorry Zoe, the paragraph that you quoted was actually written by Ms.Teacher.

The bottom paragraph was my reply to her.

yeah I actually didn't mean to quote anyone in particular...just read that and I've heard it before...usually from men justifying their impulse

 

[bruce-e]

Why bother being in a relationship if you can't be faithful? My life is too busy to be in a relationship and have another on the side...for me it is all or nothing!

Thank you Rico, Bruce

 

[SyddyKitty]

Why bother being in a relationship if you can't be faithful? My life is too busy to be in a relationship and have another on the side...for me it is all or nothing!

No.

If you're not happy/satisfied, why not just peace out? It'll hurt less in the end.
I agree with rico27 here.

You boys said it right.

 

[PussyWellington]

I have not; I don't think I could.

I have a very low tolerance for dishonesty in people who claim to care about me.

I think that's very similar to how I feel about the subject. I don't think I could /would want to hurt someone that I cared about. And as for the argument that monogamy is not natural, well neither is using a toilet.

Monogamy is a choice, and one that I am presently happy to make.

The 'judgement' argument is also weak, we make judgements constantly, it's called thinking and how we come to a decision.

 

[Ethyl]

As to "imposing my time schedule on others"...

I don't think anyone who HASN'T climbed Everest is qualified to tell you how THEY would handle the climb.

They can tell you what they think... they can tell you what their ideals and goals might be....

But they can't tell you how they would actually do when they are on the South Col and the weather goes bad.

Its not meant to be arrogant or condescending...

Just the fact that you don't really know how you will handle something you have never been thu.

My husband was a Lutheran minister and an upstanding member of the community by all appearances. 90% of the population would be unqualified or ill-equipped to give me advice on how to mend or survive the relationship.