Loneliness

[concupisys]

i was diagnosed with 'mild social anxiety' a couple of months ago.... the therapist said it wasn't due to the fact that social situations in general make me anxious or afraid, but more to do with the fact that as an introvert, i just don't feel like i should be there and want to be somewhere else.... like at home....

there are times that people - out of fear of being lonely - will put themselves in to social situations that are either unsuited to them or put them in some kind of vulnerable or dangerous position.... it is not anyone's place to make a person (either directly or indirectly) feel insecure because they don't feel like following the crowd.... if anything, it only serves to do more harm than good.... i refuse to be pressured by people, and in social context i know that being by myself is ultimately not going to harm me.... if anything, being in crowds or in large social situations make me feel lonely whereas being alone is just being alone.... there has been more than one occasion where i opted out of a situation, and those who opted in came to me after and said "you should be glad you didn't go.... it was awful...."

 

[Guill]

i was diagnosed with 'mild social anxiety' a couple of months ago.... the therapist said it wasn't due to the fact that social situations in general make me anxious or afraid, but more to do with the fact that as an introvert, i just don't feel like i should be there and want to be somewhere else.... like at home....

there are times that people - out of fear of being lonely - will put themselves in to social situations that are either unsuited to them or put them in some kind of vulnerable or dangerous position.... it is not anyone's place to make a person (either directly or indirectly) feel insecure because they don't feel like following the crowd.... if anything, it only serves to do more harm than good.... i refuse to be pressured by people, and in social context i know that being by myself is ultimately not going to harm me.... if anything, being in crowds or in large social situations make me feel lonely whereas being alone is just being alone.... there has been more than one occasion where i opted out of a situation, and those who opted in came to me after and said "you should be glad you didn't go.... it was awful...."

Do you agree with the therapist? Seems like you have yourself dialed in as an introvert and having someone label it as social anxiety isn't really productive.

 

[Guill]

To be clear, my use of dialed in is intended to reflect a high degree of self undertanding not that you are limiting yourself with that classification.

 

[concupisys]

to be honest i haven't been phased by it at all.... nothing has changed; i just wanted a 'professional' opinion....

 

[Phil Ayesho]

I suppose I think there is a difference between being lonesome and being solitary.

Perhaps being lonesome is the lack of companionship, when companionship is desired. Being solitary is the absence or reduction of human contact.

From time to time, I wish I had a friend to watch a movie or split a pizza (see bio line below). But in my professional life, I work with people intensly...and deal with more than my fair share of idiosyncrasies. Somtimes I wish I had to deal with much fewer idio's!

They can be related, but I also think you can have one and not the other.

I am saying that one LEADS to the other.

Getting comfortable with loneliness is become more solitary... more insular.
It takes effort to be around people... it can be draining.

But if you don't make the effort... you will lose interest in even trying.

There is a cure for loneliness... its called society.

 

[concupisys]

phil: have you read the article called 'caring for your introvert' that was published by the atlantic monthly magazine? i started a thread about it here a while ago, and you can even google the title and find the article.... if you haven't read it, then i suggest you do.... it will make you understand how introverted people work and why we quietly dismiss what you are trying to convey....

 

[erratic]

Do you struggle with being by yourself?

No, not at all. But if I do it too much I start getting a bit weird, you know? My mental health foibles get amplified, like too much solo time creates an echo chamber for them.

Do you enjoy going solo?

I do. There are lots of things I prefer to do by myself, like going to the cinema. I don't want anyone yap yap yapping in my ear while I'm trying to appreciate Chris Evans, you know?

Would you like to have a "bro" or a "gang" of guys?

Yeah, and I do have that. There are lots of things that I'd rather do with others. Camping, travel, anything active.

Does being solo scare the fuck out of you...especially after reading articles like the one above? :tongue:

Well, I wouldn't want to make a habit out of it but it doesn't scare the fuck out of me.

 

[rbkwp]

Thanks for your post # 41 concupysis
gives me a clear insight into the Professional Help a young friend of mine may well have benefited from
Was not really my responsibility, indeed his Parents should have attended to that, but with there limited resources, this lead to the young mans downfall.
Very Sad

 

[HFOStimmer]

phil: have you read the article called 'caring for your introvert' that was published by the atlantic monthly magazine?

well, I'm not an introvert, but I found a word that I had forgotten about... misanthropy

 

[dongalong]

People keep using the word "solitary", but I'm forgetting to actually coined the well-known, "There's a difference between being lonely, and just plain alone."

I also disagree that loneliness is purely a choice, or due to laziness, etc. I agree, in some instances there are those aspects, but that flippantly ignores that some people legitimately suffer from fear, anxiety, and depression. For a few friends, when you add those elements, sometimes the very idea of making a choice, becomes an overwhelming impossibility. The really unfortunate part of that, is that I think it's too easy for a vicious cycle to then form.

I have noticed that being alone the majority of the time for whatever reason generates this fear and anxiety because you become too self centered.
I have become more self conscious in social situations recently, I even noticed that my shyness that I thought I'd overcome returned in some circumstances.
You just get out of practice and you forget what to do to meet new people and the fear of rejection increases to the point where it effects your confidence and body language until the rejections really do happen which really does damage to your self esteem. This is the vicious cycle you mentioned, it seems to have occured cyclically in my life.
Like any phobia or fear, the only way to overcome it is to confront it which means getting out more, this has worked for me in the past and will work again.
Choosing activities which force you to integrate into a group or pair up with a partner are the best to make new contacts.
Meeting people becomes fun again and your overall impression to others improves, naturally increasing confidence and reducing rejections etc.

I should also mention that you need to make an effort if you want new people to take a continued interest in you, thinking of fun things to do and calling them up to go with you is usually enough.

I think that this is my problem, I'm so focused on finishing my renovation project that i choose to put most of my effort into that, I've turned down several party invites recently and haven't called anyone up to go out and the thought of looking for a new girlfriend currently seems too daunting for me, but from time to time I do feel lonely - I just don't feel ready to do all those things but I sometimes wonder if I'm making a mistake by being like this.

 

[headrush93]

im not lonely i have a great wife ... m just hornier than she and therein lies the problem.

 

[deleted3782]

And now we know why fraternal clubs like the Masons, Civitans, Rotary, Lions, Kiwanis, and Shiners were important 100 years ago. Service club membership has dropped like a rock over the past 30 years...maybe those old timers were smarter than we give them credit!

 

[concupisys]

@rbkwp: you are quite welcome.... i'm sorry that you lost your friend....

@HFO: introverts have no issue with humans or collective culture.... in fact: it's us introverts that act as oracles within those cultures.... so get in line.....

 

[Exbiker]

I think we are ( evolved to be ) fundamentally social creatures.

But there are different ways of managing that. Some do it through education, or work, or sport, or hobbies, or church etc. Or some combination. Some do it ( mainly ) online.

Some prefer the 4-8-12 close friends model. Others can find time for many more, in thin slices.

Everything is permitted. All options can be OK. For you ...

But I think very few people are really built for isolation. We are not fortresses...

And we are at least bit part actors in our own play. You can't be the sole author of your life, or the director or maybe even the lead actor. But it is also wrong to suggest that we are just some guy or girl at the back of the audience ...

 

[223790]

There has been a good discussion in a picture thread, and I don't want to dilute the intent of that thread with a side discusssion, so...a new thread.

Do you struggle with loneliness?

Thanks to AG08:







The article doesn't speak for me exactly. I never sought money or fame, and I never had a family or kids. I did have a few strong friendships with guys when I was younger, and all of them have drifted away when they got married and had kids, except one. It used to bother me, but I respect their need to focus on family.


I wouldn't mind having close local friends, or a gang (as the article stated)...to a limit. As you get older, I think you become more suspicious of other people's agendas. Maybe they want a fishing buddy...but I dont like fishing. Maybe they want a drinking buddy...but I don't enjoy drinking. I just want to do what I want, when I want, and how I want...but to a degree, I've always been like that.


I might be growing into a classic isolationist male...after work I keep to myself, on weekends I keep to myself unless someone asks me to do something (and even then I only accept if its something that interests me), and for Christmas I'm taking a two week trip out of the country by myself. Sometimes, I think it would be great to have a buddy in my life, but other times I find I keep myself isolated on purpose.

Do you struggle with being by yourself? Do you enjoy going solo? Would you like to have a "bro" or a "gang" of guys? Does being solo scare the fuck out of you...especially after reading articles like the one above? :tongue:

Wow! Thanks for starting a thread on this topic exwhyzee. I was quite surprised when I stumbled across it. I think it is an important topic that men don't talk about enough because we have been conditioned to be independent and not show feelings or that we need others. I think it was a great idea of yours to start a new thread on this topic, so we don't take anything away from the previous thread topic. The article that I provided the link to really struck me when I read it. I think it sums up a common problem that many men have, but don't want to talk about out of fear of looking weak. Thanks for starting this thread.

 

[223790]

If you are interested, here is what I posted in the other thread about this topic:

It happens to all of us as we get older. I tried to keep in touch with mine, but when there was no effort on their part, I had to let it go. Most of these guys were in my fraternity when I was a university student. My fraternity had a reunion a couple of weeks ago, but I decided not to go. Those guys were my bros in the past, but not anymore. If they were real bros, they wouldn't have disappeared over the last 10 years (despite my efforts to stay in touch). I don't buy the "I was busy" B.S. line, we are all busy. Translation: "I was too lazy to stay in touch and took for granted that you would be there when I wanted to be friends again." Like anything in life, you get out what you put in. Note: I didn't attend because I gave up on these guys years ago after trying repeatedly for 3 years to get them together for a reunion. Not surprisingly, it was cancelled due to lack of interest.

I've started making some new bro friends by getting involved in organizations, and by taking every opportunity to strike up friendships. Lately, I have been working out with the husband of my wife's friend. He's a cool guy and we get along great. We meet up every week for a workout and some social time afterwards (coffee). He told me that he needed some "guy time" when we were talking about the importance of having it in our lives. I have made several gym friends at my Y, so every time I go in, I see someone I know and we chat. The key here is to make the effort. So many men don't, and then wonder why they have ended up friendless, lonely and unhappy with their lives despite having fat wallets. Here is a great article on this very topic:

For aging men, loneliness can be deadly - Help - Macleans.ca

I think we have all been hurt and let down by others guys we considered our bros in the past. I have too. My 2 best friends in university both did it to me, and I haven't had any contact with them for the last 10 years because of it. I tried to get past it, but our friendships had just run their course. I was so close to these 2 guys that I always thought it would tear me up to decide which one would be my best man when I got married. By the time I got married, I didn't even want either of them at my wedding let alone as best man in my wedding party. In fact, one of them I didn't even bother inviting to my wedding because I was tired of his B.S. I have really missed not having those close guy friendships over the last ten years, but I have started getting close to another guy again. We are buds, but not bros yet. He is married to my wife's friend. The funny thing is that he and I hang out more often than his wife hangs out with my wife! We both belong to the same gym, so we meet up every week for a workout, and go out for a coffee afterwards (as I mentioned in my previous post). I guess this shows that he enjoys my company as much as I do his. There are 3 other guys that I'm in contact with and would consider my friends, but we see each other sporadically. We do make an effort to stay in touch though which is the most important thing. Many guys don't put any effort into friendships because they take for granted that they will always be there. The point then comes in their life where they realize they are friendless and lonely for male companionship or "guy time" as I like to call it. They wrap themselves up in their family, only to have their kids grow up and move out, and not feel content with only having their partner as their only friend. I guess my point is that even though you have been hurt and let down in the past, you have to move on and try to make new friends. You will meet a few assholes along the way; that I can guarantee you (I sure did). Eventually though, you will find someone who is compatible and wants the same thing that you do, genuine friendship because they are lonely too. If you erect a wall around you, you won't get hurt again, but it's an incredibly lonely way to live. Check out the link to the article in my original post (in the first message in this post at the end). I think there is a lot of truth to this article!

You wouldn't believe how many middle age (which I am) and older guys strike up conversations with me at my Y. I think they do this because they are lonely. I see a wedding ring on their finger, and they like to talk about their wife, but they seem to be looking for something else, a buddy. You can be happily married and still feel lonely because your wife can't be your only friend as well. Every guy needs other guys and guy time, but most men are afraid to admit it because they think it makes them look weak. Men are always taught to be independent and not need anyone, but no person is an island. I also belong to a men's social club (which is worldwide). It gets me out of the house a couple of times a month to hang with the guys.

Make the effort to meet new guy friends, and eventually it will pay off. It's starting to for me. I hope this helps guys! Cheers!

I have found that since leaving university (which was a very social atmosphere), it has been incredibly hard to meet new people. Being too picky about who you allow to be close to you also results in loneliness. The guy that I was talking about is a cool guy who I would have become friends with had we met any other way. It just so happened that he's married to my wife's friend and that is how him and I met. As I mentioned before, I usually don't care for my wife's friends' husbands. IMO, it's silly to allow a potential close friendship slip by just because his wife is friends with your wife. All that should matter is that you're compatible, which he and I are. We are both low key (can't stand "in your face" type A personality people), educated so we connect on the intellectual level (we're both professionals with university educations), have a similar lifestyle, and have similar values. Seize friendship opportunities wherever they present themselves unless you like being friendless. I know of plenty of people that turned away potential friends for one reason or another only to end up completely alone. It's a sad way to live IMO.

 

[223790]

I have been reading through this thread with great interest. I think what exwhyzee is talking about is guys that WANT to have close male friends, but don't. If you're happy being alone and not having close male friends, then so be it. I don't think he or anyone else was saying that every guy must have close guy friends. Some men don't want them, and are happy without them, and that's fine. To each their own.

Something I think every person needs to keep in mind when trying to make friends is that the people you meet will not be perfect. However, guess what? You're not perfect either! You have to overlook other people's imperfections. Everybody does things that drive other people crazy, and you do things that drive other people crazy too! All of the guys that I'm friends with do and say things that really bug me sometimes, but their hearts are in the right place, so I focus on that rather than what they did or said. I'm sure that I have done and said things that really bug them as well. No one is perfect. Being overly critical and judgmental of others is a sure fire recipe for lonliness.

Another factor that comes into play here is the person your friend marries. Many of my old university/fraternity buddies married control feak wives that started dictating who could and couldn't be their husband's friends. I gave up on those guys because I couldn't stand their wives, and I'm sure their wives felt the same way about me. Some women feel that their husband's time should only be spent with them and their kids. God help them once the kids grow up and move out, and/or thier marriage ends in divorce. Some of the guys I used to know are already divorced. The problem for them was that their old buddies moved on because they gave up on them after years of trying to get together.

Social networking (AKA: facebook) is one of the worst inventions of all time IMO. I quit facebook 2 years ago because my old friends became complacent and lazy socializing through social media rather than face to face. They would reminisce endlessly online about our younger fraternity days, but wouldn't come out for a face to face get together once a year. Friends on facebook mean nothing. Friends in real life are true friends IMO. If a "friend" can't get together with me once a year, they are not really a friend anymore. I tried for 3 years to get these guys together to no avail. After that, I just had to give up and walked away. It was at that point that I realized facebook was a waste of time, and that it was time to meet new people. That's exactly what I did, and I have never looked back. You get out what you put in with everything in life.

 

[223790]

And now we know why fraternal clubs like the Masons, Civitans, Rotary, Lions, Kiwanis, and Shiners were important 100 years ago. Service club membership has dropped like a rock over the past 30 years...maybe those old timers were smarter than we give them credit!

Those clubs still exist today. In fact, I'm a member of one of them! This was the club that I referred to in one of my other posts. You wouldn't believe how many guys (young and old) are joining every month. The fact that so many younger guys are joining speaks volumes about the futility of online social networking. I love being a member because it gets me out of the house a couple of times a month to hang with the guys. I get annoyed when people who don't know what these organizations are truly about go around spouting conspiracy theories and other B.S. They exist and have existed for a long time for a reason. We are social creatures by nature, yet there are few outlets for socialization after you leave school. Will you like every guy you meet in that organization? Of course not! Will you meet a few you like? Absolutely! I didn't like every guy I met in my university fraternity, but I did meet a few guys that I really clicked with. The same is true in every organization. You are not "buying friends" (another line of B.S. that drives me nuts) when you join a club that has dues. Every organization has costs to operate, so why would this be any different?

 

[concupisys]

well AG08, it looks like you may have killed this thread.... poopy.... i was quite enjoying this one.....

 

[ges]

well AG08, it looks like you may have killed this thread.... poopy.... i was quite enjoying this one.....

Thanks for this thread. I have found it really interesting, and hope to read more input of guys' beliefs about or experiences of lonliness. Strangely, I don't feel so alone when I hear that others experience lonliness