Racism haunts Obama

[HyperHulk]

HyperHulk, I just looked at your profile and noticed you are currently in Australia. Did you ever live in the United States?

The experience of being a black person in America is probably vastly different than that of a black person in Oz, England or Turkey. My point is, I know every country has racism, but it exhibits itself differently in different countries.

NJQT--it'd be great if you didn't presume that I was an idiot. I'm trying to get to a deeper understanding of something that seems primal--this deep hatred of the one person I can imagine who has achieved this level of prominence who should defy all conventional racist beliefs and stereotypes.

I'm African-American, I grew up in the US my whole life except for the last couple of years and I have more formal education than 99.9% of the population. And yes, I'm struggling to understand something that seems inexplicable but is very real.

Hate doesn't exist in a vacuum. When you hate something, you have reasons. I'm trying to learn what those specific reasons are. Maybe I won't get anyone who can articulate their hatred beyond, he's Black and that's enough. I'm hoping someone can.

 

[marleyisalegend]

NJQT--it'd be great if you didn't presume that I wasn't an idiot. I'm trying to get to a deeper understanding of something that seems primal--this deep hatred of the one person I can imagine who has achieved this level of prominence who should defy all conventional racist beliefs and stereotypes.

I'm African-American, I grew up in the US my whole life except for the last couple of years and I have more formal education than 99.9% of the population. And yes, I'm struggling to understand something that seems inexplicable but is very real.

Hate doesn't exist in a vacuum. When you hate something, you have reasons. I'm trying to learn what those specific reasons are. Maybe I won't get anyone who can articulate their hatred beyond, he's Black and that's enough. I'm hoping someone can.

the hatred against people of different backgrounds seems mostly rooted in ignorance. you believe the worst of that group because that's usually what the media will portray. plus some of it is nurture. i knew kids in high-school that were racist simply because their parents were.

 

[bigboy9239]

Flattery will get you nowhere. :tongue:

Thank God we live in a country (at least for now) where we can express our opinions without fear of being hung or executed.:usa:

I thought I WAS hung.... and I am a black man...hmmm connection?>

 

[HyperHulk]

it's plain and simple. some people have their minds made up about a black person before he/she speaks. media has taught us that the black man is a robber, thief, racist, drug-addict, murderer.

This is part of what I'm trying to grasp. Obama clearly isn't any of these things. He doesn't fit any racial stereotype ever associated with Black people--he's not a violent criminal, he's not a religious civil rights protester, or even the successful Black guy who marries a White woman. He's the Tiger Woods/Michael Jordan of the political world and still people hate him. This I'm trying to understand.

 

[D_Fiona_Farvel]

a lot of hype...here's Jon Stewart breaking down the "muslim" connection and laughing at them for the 1/2-assed observation.

Wait for it .. the part that goes "This, is, Huge!"

I love Jon Stewart.

Obama's middle is from his african father, Barack Hussein Obama (Sr.).

His parents divorced.

But his mother remarried an Indonesian man in Hawaii and lived in Indonesia for 4 years (from the time he was 4-8) until his mother divorced his step-father. Indonesia has a huge muslim population. That's the connection. (stunning, no?)

Last year Jan, 2007 - Foxnews ran this stunning tidbit, before Obama announced his candidacy, that Obama that went a muslim school called a "Madrassa" (don't ask me if I spelled it right). The hype is that "Madrassa" is Arabic for "school." *oooh* spooky. They forever referred to it as Obama's Madrassa past.

CNN went to that Madrassa elementary school in Indonesia. It was an ordinary school where the wore western dress.

Madrasa is the Arabic word for school, and in all fairness, the school could have been one that offered koranic study. However, four years in childhood means little - the way some spin Obama and Islam makes it seem like he is a Muslim Manchurian candidate.

 

[marleyisalegend]

This is part of what I'm trying to grasp. Obama clearly isn't any of these things. He doesn't fit any racial stereotype ever associated with Black people--he's not a violent criminal, he's not a religious civil rights protester, or even the successful Black guy who marries a White woman. He's the Tiger Woods/Michael Jordan of the political world and still people hate him. This I'm trying to understand.

a major necessity of racism or bigotry is to COMPLETELY ignore accomplishments of the group you're biased against. if the people who slam blacks and muslims stopped using inventions by those groups, their lives would be much more difficult. once again, racism isn't rooted in an intelligent or accurate idealogy, it's simple-minded in it's belief that an entire group acts/behaves/thinks/etc... a certain way. there is often little logic and very few facts involved. i've noticed that in most forums, when i begin posting statistics that disprove ignorant ideas, the conversation either ends, reverts to personal attacks, or continues with opinions that have already been proven incorrect.

 

[HyperHulk]

Also, let's keep in mind that many people don't fundamentally vote with a sense of objectivity - balancing out the pros and cons of the candidates based on a rubric of a candidate's platform. Many people who enter the polling booth, when asked to choose a candidate, ultimately vote for the candidate with whom they identify the most.

... Those (White) people who voted Republican in 1996 to 2004, I believe, voted erroneously. They labored under the false belief that the Doles/Bush/Cheneys of the world represented their interest only because older White males represent the figure of authority. They didn't understand that the Doles/Bushes/Cheneys did not represent their interests socially nor economically. People are now starting to figure it out.

I actually think people voted for Bush and co because of 9/11. 9/11 was so tragic on so many levels that most people had post-traumatic stress syndrome and simply wanted protection or a sense of security from that nightmare ever happening again. Rove managed to create a message that simply had Bush as trying to protect the US by any means necessary. That was enough for most people. That's why there was a code orange every 2 weeks leading up to the second election--build the fear and have Bush play tough guy sheriff. No one believed that Kerry would protect them. Fear won out.

 

[bigboy9239]

HyperHulk, I just looked at your profile and noticed you are currently in Australia. Did you ever live in the United States?

The experience of being a black person in America is probably vastly different than that of a black person in Oz, England or Turkey. My point is, I know every country has racism, but it exhibits itself differently in different countries.

How true..I doubt that the experiences of a white male in Australia would be even close to a black man in America. But then again, just ask the aboriginal people about racism. Oh and BTW...I am a black man...( I know..i don't look it)...and I hope Obama doesnt get elected because I'm afraid of what will happen if he does and the rednecks (or the powers that be) try to harm him. It could start a very serious problem in this country if that happens. Personally, i think that most Americans really think he can change things ..but thats the problem...the powers that be...don't wan't change they want to maintian the Status Quo.

 

[HyperHulk]

Madrasa is the Arabic word for school, and in all fairness, the school could have been one that offered koranic study. However, four years in childhood means little - the way some spin Obama and Islam makes it seem like he is a Muslim Manchurian candidate.

But you have to hand it to them, somehow they've managed to attack Obama for being under the influence of his christian pastor for the last 20 years and being a covert Muslim--at the same time!!!! And people have bought it. If you put that in a movie, no one would believe it.

 

[B_VinylBoy]

Everyone has interesting and valid things to say about this, especially HotBulge & njqt466.

Although I don't think racism is as much of a problem as it was back in the 50s and 60s, it's still a factor in everyday life. Obama is destined to receive opposition from those with this archaic ideals and beliefs about people who are different from themselves. And as marleyisalegend pointed out, it makes things even more difficult when press outlets protray certain races with a negative bias, whether it be direct or indirect. It'll be a major test for Obama to see if he can win over some of the states where this bias towards black people runs the strongest if he does secures the nomination.

Obama has won these states in the primary: Alaska , Alabama, Colorado, Connecticut, Delaware, Georgia, Hawaii, Idaho, Illinois, Iowa, Kansas, Louisiana, Maine, Maryland, Minnesota, Mississippi, Missouri, Nebraska, North Dakota, South Carolina, Texas (caucus), Utah, Vermont, Virginia, Washington, Washington D.C., Wisconsin, and Wyoming.

16 out of 28, or 57% of these victories are in states that voted for the Republican Candidate at least 4 out of the last 5 presidential elections. The big states that usually go Democratic went to Clinton. If racism remains a major issue for Obama, then this can spell trouble for him in November.

 

[HyperHulk]

How true..I doubt that the experiences of a white male in Australia would be even close to a black man in America. But then again, just ask the aboriginal people about racism. Oh and BTW...I am a black man...( I know..i don't look it)...and I hope Obama doesnt get elected because I'm afraid of what will happen if he does and the rednecks (or the powers that be) try to harm him. It could start a very serious problem in this country if that happens. Personally, i think that most Americans really think he can change things ..but thats the problem...the powers that be...don't wan't change they want to maintian the Status Quo.

I guess you missed the post where I stated that I'm an African-American who has lived the first 32 years of my life in the US of A. So I quite familiar with what's going on in America.

The attitude of not wanting Obama to run because you think harm is going to come is one of the worst rationalizations I've ever heard. What if MLK Jr, Malcolm X and RFK gave up because they were too afraid? Where would we be? We can't let the sociopaths determine the future. What if Rosa Parks was too afraid to get on that bus? There will most likely be an attempt on Obama's life. Hell, there was an attempt on Reagan's and he didn't have any of this stuff Obama is getting. I'm just hoping the Secret Service do their job and Obama gets very lucky. Bravery must triumph over fear. Repeat that until you believe it.

 

[B_Lightkeeper]

I was going to back off this subject for awhile but I wanted to pass on a remark I heard recently. Several were discussing a possible running mate for McCain and someone mentioned Romney. "Romney? Hell I won't vote for anyone wearing funny underwear!" That, BTW, was their remark...not mine.


They should check out this site and see some of the underwear here in the galleries! :tongue: Doubtful though they would ever see these posts - they're probably very homophobic also. :biggrin1:

 

[HyperHulk]

Obama is destined to receive opposition from those with this archaic ideals and beliefs about people who are different from themselves.

Yes and I'm trying to figure out what these archaic ideals and beliefs are as they apply to Obama? Is it that Blacks are dirty? Dumb? Lazy? Godless? Savages? Welfare takers? Drug addicts? Criminals? Rapists? Thugs?

Those are some of the stereotypes that have been used against Blacks. Obama defies all of them categorically. So what beliefs and ideals are people associating with him? What does Obama's blackness mean to these people? That's what I'm not getting. It has to mean something. It always means something. Even if that meaning is irrational.

 

[BiItalianBro]

Cynically, I believe that George Bush Jr's failure as a president explains how the American public can conceive of a Black man or a woman as president. Anyone who lived through 8 years of George Bush Jr., and 12 years of Reagan Bush Sr. can see the systematic erosion of the middle class through failed Republican/Neo-Conservative principles. Minorities (Blacks and women) who only marginally participated in the power structure were not responsible for this quagmire of failed Republican governance. Now, many White people who are becoming more marginalized (economically) are starting to trust those who have been historically marginalized!

I think you are right on there HotBulge. The appeal of Obama, for those who are politically awake, also rests in the reality that four (or eight) years of Clintonism is four or eight more years of the same crap in a different package. Going forward, we are looking at a potential Bush(HW) Clinton(WJ)/Bush(GW)/Clinton(HR)/Bush (Jeb)/Clinton(Chelsea?) power chain that the media-military-industrial complex puppet-masters salivate over. B.H. Obama throws a wrench in that chain, hence his appeal.

 

[D_Portelay Porquesword]

His wife's dissertation about not feeling like she belonged on the campus of the college she was attending was disturbing. Most people cannot afford to even attend a college like that black or white. College campuses are filled with people from all over the world, how is it that one black woman with money can feel like an outsiders when there are thousands of other black students on the same campus?

I feel badly that she felt this way.

I don't have a problem with Obama's race or his political views. (Not all of them anyway.)

For me, personally, there is something I cannot put my finger on that bothers me about him. Something I do not trust. Something only time will tell for me.

If he wins, I hope he does us all the kind favor of being the best man for the job.

 

[D_Chocho_Lippz]

Do you peeps ever think that maybe people don't really care what race he is, they just don't like him as a politician - then the media spins up the race card and says that people don't like him because he is black or has a Muslim name? I generally think that the media thrives on these "shock tidbits" and everyone buys into it. Are there people out there that won't vote Obama because he is black? Sure. Are there people out there that won't vote Clinton because she is a woman? Sure. Are there people out there that won't vote McCain because he was in the military? Sure. Are there people that won't vote for Ron Paul because he believes in the Consititution? Sure. Are there that won't vote for Romney because he is a Mormon? Sure. Are there people that won't vote for Richardson because he is overweight? Sure. I mean, please people. Can't you see that the media has just picked the most controversial subject to create ratings?

Personally, I think America is far beyond it's media's political rhetoric. If racism is truly living on, it is because we continually say that it is alive and feed into it. If we just snuffed our noses and said, whatever dude, and walked away, I think the situation would be far less today than if we "combated" it. Furthermore, that maybe if we saw racism occur, that someone not in the situtaion would have the balls to stand up and say, "Hey man, that is jacked up."

This, of course, is coming from a white guy. I am sure that I have not experienced racism as much as a minority, but then again, if someone makes a snide comment about my skin or something (which they have) I just snuff it up as that individual being a jackass. In other words, I don't assume that someone is being down on me due to a generality (I'm white, I'm male, etc) but rather because they don't like me personally. In my life I've always been an outcast and been made fun of - but I've always assumed that if I buy into the lie, then the lie wins and lives on. If it was never true in the first place, walk away. If it was somewhat true, then improve on it and break free of the stereotype.

Here is a video that I think was well said on the issue... (YouTube - Everyone Isn't Racist, Black People!!)

As for people going to jail and the numbers being unweighted (more blacks go to jail for crimes that whites also commit). I don't get this argument. If someone does something that is wrong, should they be punished? Yeah, I think everyone would agree with that. So, if whites are being let off, well that is downright shitty. However, if a black does something wrong and is caught and convicted, should we be complaining that the white guy got off or trying to quit doing the dirty deed? I think the more logical and beneficial answer is to not worry about the other guy and try to fix our own shitniz! Its just like when you get pulled over for speeding, and then you see a dude fly by going 30mph over the limit, and you look at the cop and go "WHAT! Are you not going to get him! I was only doing 10 over! He is going 30 over!" Regardless of how fast that guy was going, were you not going over and thus breaking the law?

I hope I didn't offend anyone. I am a firm believer in individualism. To me, nobody is black or white or Latino or Asian (etc) - we are all humans. If I don't like you, I don't feel that way because of your skin, I feel that way because you are stupid (or a prick, etc). I think the racism issue would be bettered if everyone holding up the racism card put that card down and said, no, I'm not black (latino, etc), I'm an individual human-being. No, I'm not saying that you have to give up your heritage, but you do have to assimilate to some level. I don't believe in this collectivism thought process where the group itself is higher than the individual. (No you are not BLACK, you are Martin, Rosa, and Jackie who happen to have black skin).

As for Obama, I don't like him one bit. Again, I am an individualist. Each person is responsible for their problems AND their success alike. The government is not here and was not designed to be a "daddy" and make us all play nice. I think that Obama plays too much into this collectivist thought process, and I think that is a very dangerous road to go down.

Anyways, I suppose I should put on my flame suit now..

 

[mykal923]

i dont like anyone running for president i guess Mickey Mouse gets my vote this year
It has nothing to do with race or gender or age
But i dont think either one of the 3 could do the job!!!!
This country has some real issue it needs to overcome

 

[B_VinylBoy]

Yes and I'm trying to figure out what these archaic ideals and beliefs are as they apply to Obama? Is it that Blacks are dirty? Dumb? Lazy? Godless? Savages? Welfare takers? Drug addicts? Criminals? Rapists? Thugs?

All of the above, and then some. What's funny is that people with these beliefs about different races tend to associate these same ideal to anyone that are different from them. If Obama was Asian, those who hate Asians would think the same thing.

Those are some of the stereotypes that have been used against Blacks. Obama defies all of them categorically. So what beliefs and ideals are people associating with him? What does Obama's blackness mean to these people? That's what I'm not getting. It has to mean something. It always means something. Even if that meaning is irrational.

It is irrational. But we're talking about people who don't use rational thinking. Instead of looking at people as individuals, they categorize an entire demographic by the actions of a few. And most of these views are highly influenced by the media, as well as their own fears and ignorance. If one black man robs a bank, then they assume all of them must do the same thing. It really doesn't make any sense for any adult to think this way, but unfortunately we have plenty of people who do... and they all get a chance to vote too. :no:

 

[bosatbk]

His wife's dissertation about not feeling like she belonged on the campus of the college she was attending was disturbing. Most people cannot afford to even attend a college like that black or white. College campuses are filled with people from all over the world, how is it that one black woman with money can feel like an outsiders when there are thousands of other black students on the same campus?

I feel badly that she felt this way.

I don't have a problem with Obama's race or his political views. (Not all of them anyway.)

For me, personally, there is something I cannot put my finger on that bothers me about him. Something I do not trust. Something only time will tell for me.

If he wins, I hope he does us all the kind favor of being the best man for the job.

If you put yourself in her shoes, it is very easy to see hwo she felt that way. Think about, imagine that you have grown up being told that you are inferior to the other race by the other race. You work hard but still face racism on a daily basis. Not only that, you get to a school that is 3%/4% black, your actual ability comes into question because people assume you get in on affirmative action, you are the only black a lot of times in the classroom, dormroom, gym etc... You are not hit on and are single because there is not a man there to pick her up and the ones that are there go after white girls or the light skin which was and is a huge issue in the black community. The list goes on and on. Jus tlook at history, blacks have to an extent, been treated as second class citizens and have been viewed with suspicion as to how smart they are and such. Because Michelle didnt feel comfortable doesnt mean she is unpatriotic, it just means she didnt feel comfortable. Just imagine what it feels like for the average white person to walk into a room full of black people and you are the only white. It can be quite uncomfortable. Now imagine that everyday. Its that simple. And just to clarify, Michelle didnt have money. Listen to her story when she talks, her parents jsut worked hard and put her in a position to do well educationally.

 

[Ms.Teacher]

I have no problem with Obama's race. It's his middle name and Muslim connection that bothers me. Plus all the Wright stuff and his wife's attitude.

I agree. Hillary has a lot of baggage but he's catching up.

His wife's dissertation about not feeling like she belonged on the campus of the college she was attending was disturbing. Most people cannot afford to even attend a college like that black or white. College campuses are filled with people from all over the world, how is it that one black woman with money can feel like an outsiders when there are thousands of other black students on the same campus?

I feel badly that she felt this way.

She strikes me as an angry person, and someone who for some reason feels threatened by white people. She's been privileged and should rejoice in that. I won't call her a racist, but she has issues.

I don't have a problem with Obama's race or his political views. (Not all of them anyway.)

For me, personally, there is something I cannot put my finger on that bothers me about him. Something I do not trust. Something only time will tell for me.

If he wins, I hope he does us all the kind favor of being the best man for the job.

That's my feeling. Something is just not right which can't be explained. It's a feeling I have inside which is not how his supporters feel about him. I can't in good conscience vote for him. McCain doesn't do much for me, but if I have to choose, it's going to be McCain. :redface:

I wish there were more choices available.