Does HIV cause Aids?

Extremecummer

Sexy Member
Cammer
Joined
Feb 3, 2005
Posts
463
Media
0
Likes
40
Points
248
Location
Vincennes, Indiana, United States of America (the)
Sexuality
99% Gay, 1% Straight
I don't think I can read much more of this. Having lost four roommates, dozens of friends and others to HIV-become-full-blown-AIDS .. having sat through briefings at Johns Hopkins in Baltimore ... having watched my dearest friend ever waste away to 85 pounds, his body covered with purple Karposi Sarcoma manifestations ...
... Sorry, but to consider AIDS a government plot is to have an incredible degree of insensitivity.
Dennis
 

HazelGod

Sexy Member
Joined
Dec 11, 2006
Posts
7,154
Media
1
Likes
31
Points
183
Location
The Other Side of the Pillow
Sexuality
99% Straight, 1% Gay
Gender
Male
Magic Johnson's doctors said they cannot find a trace of HIV in his blood anymore. He has been "cured"!

Nonsense...this only means that his daily antiretroviral cocktail is keeping the HIV concentration in his bloodstream below a detectable threshold.

Current therapies cannot target the virus within the lymphatic system. If he were to stop taking his meds, the viral load in his bloodstream would skyrocket.
 

Bbucko

Cherished Member
Joined
Oct 28, 2006
Posts
7,232
Media
8
Likes
326
Points
208
Location
Sunny SoFla
Sexuality
90% Gay, 10% Straight
Gender
Male
You keep writing about AZT. How often is AZT used anymore? AZT is a drug with terrible side effects, but it was the only thing that had any promise at the time. Since AZT isn't widely used anymore, what do you have to say about the newer classes of drugs? Are they immunosuppressants too that are killing people?

Bbucko could explain the use of AZT and other AIDS drugs far better than I can, but with my limited knowledge, I don't think the newer drugs have the same problems that AZT does.

AZT was introduced in 1988 and was the first therapeutic medication for those living with HIV/AIDS. By the early 90s, drugs like DDI and D4T came on line. They were rarely mixed in the "cocktail" that became popular with the introduction of Protease Inhibitors in 1996. It was called "monotherapy" and very quickly went out of favor.

The earliest patients on monotherapy AZT were real-life guinea pigs. The dosing was at levels that no one would prescribe today, and it was exceedingly toxic. It's for that reason that very few survivors of monotherapy are still around to tell their tales (but they do exist).

But AZT is still widely prescribed today, mixed with other medications and delivered in much smaller, more exacting doses. A combination of AZT and 3TC was among the very first treatments I received back when I was first diagnosed. DDI was also one of the subsequent medications I took for almost three years.

They were and are all dreadful, even in smaller doses, and have left me with peripheral neuropathy (mild) in my ankles. 3TC and another medication called Zerit are also responsible for most of the fat wasting in my face, giving me a new, thinner face in my mid-40s. I have included two face pix in my gallery which show this wasting. To the casual observer or someone who doesn't know what my face used to look like, nothing seems obvious or out of whack. But to anyone familiar with this side effect from the meds, it's obvious.

I was also on a double Protease Inhibitor called Kaletra, which caused my body to metabolize fats differently and caused my cholesterol to go from 150 to 575 in about three weeks. I joke that my triglycerides were on the level of a goose being prepared for foie gras, but there was enough urgency to have me admitted to the hospital for observation on Christmas Eve 2001.

I was instructed to maintain a strict no-fat, no-cholesterol diet with no exceptions (ever) along with two different Statins, each with their own restrictions and side-effects. Within six months I was out of dangerous territory, and within 18 months my cholesterol returned to under 200.

Another of Kaletra's side-effects is constant lower GI disturbance. I could never be more than ten minutes from a toilet. The combined daily "garden hose" diarrhea and extreme diet effected a net loss of 35 lbs and whatever I ever had of a butt. My waist went from a normal, healthy 32" (OK, 33") to 28", which I had as a teenager but not since.

I am going into such nauseating detail because all these issues (and others I'll save for a rainy day) were considered "acceptable" side-effects by my doctors. I have never been taken off a medication because of toxic side-effects in over ten years of taking them. The only time the choice has been made to discard a medication was when I experienced viral "breakthrough" ie: lack of suppression. This has happened frequently.

Among the more recent medications is Ziagen, which is either given by itself or in conjunction with 3TC in a concoction called Epzicom (which sounds like a wireless phone service). For upwards of 5% of the population Ziagen (Abacavir) is a deadly poison that kills within 24 hours, and every prescription comes with warning cards. It's pretty vile stuff, but hasn't killed me.

Sustiva, which I've never taken, is one of the very few medications that can cross the blood-brain barrier (AZT is another) and is therefore thought to combat HIV in nerve tissue where it is known to thrive and is otherwise unreachable by medications. But Sustiva causes side-effects ranging from nightmares to psychotic episodes.

There are many people who take a few pills (or even one) everyday and never have side-effects. They are the ones that you see in all those pharmaceutical ads showing people climbing mountains and lifting weights. What you never see are those who have grown humps on their backs, or with huge bellies and spindly legs, or those with such bad facial wasting (lipoatrophy) that they just have veins, bone and skin left on their heads.

These "walking wounded" might well have 1200 T-Cells and undetectable viral loads, but live with damaged livers, chronic pain and permanent disfigurement.

They are the true survivors. There are hundreds of people dying every year still because the meds are too toxic or ineffective for them.

There are also American citizens placed on waiting lists because the demand for the meds is greater than the funds to pay for them. Federal Ryan White and ADAP funds are administered by the states, not all of which do a great job.

Even if your state has the funding to pay for your treatment medications, there are income eligibility restrictions, usually about $30,000 per year. Earn more than that and you loose your meds and your doctor. This keeps folks living with HIV and working at jobs without health insurance poor.

The medications that keep us alive have some pretty astounding side-effects, all things taken into account.
 

Principessa

Expert Member
Joined
Nov 22, 2006
Posts
18,660
Media
0
Likes
143
Points
193
Sexuality
100% Straight, 0% Gay
Gender
Female
Magic Johnson's doctors said they cannot find a trace of HIV in his blood anymore. He has been "cured"!
You really shouldn't believe everything you read. All I had to do was google Magic Johnson + Cure and over 300,000 articles came up which say he is not cured. :tongue::rolleyes:


Magic Johnson combats AIDS misperceptionsUpdated 12/1/2006 1:13 PM ET
By Steve Sternberg, USA TODAY

Call it the Magic Paradox. Fifteen years ago, L.A. Laker legend Magic Johnson announced he had AIDS and would retire from basketball. Today, Johnson, 47, looks so healthy some may question whether AIDS is the menace it was made out to be.

That's one of the myths Johnson says he will have to dispel if he's going to succeed in perhaps his most ambitious venture of all, a $60 million partnership with the drug firm Abbott that aims to cut AIDS rates among African-Americans by 50% in the next five years.

AUDIO: Johnson reflects on 15 years with HIV

"You can't take that attitude that you're going to be like Magic," says Johnson, who will launch the I Stand with Magic partnership at a World AIDS Day briefing in Los Angeles on Friday.

"Since I announced 15 years ago, hundreds of thousands of people have died of HIV/AIDS," he says. "There will be more people dying. The virus acts different in all of us. There's no certainty that if you get the virus, you're going to be OK."

In fact, if you're young and black, odds are that you won't be, statistics show. For the past six years, HIV has been the leading cause of death for blacks 25 to 44 years of age, according to the Kaiser Family Foundation.

For whites, HIV is the fifth-leading cause of death; for Hispanics, HIV ranks fourth. Although blacks make up about 15% of the U.S. population, they account for about 50% of all people in the United States who live with HIV.

Blacks account for almost half of new HIV diagnoses, a tide that is rising. Two-thirds of new infections among women occur in black women. "We've got to drive these numbers down," Johnson says.

Magic strategy
To reach that goal, Johnson and his I Stand with Magic partners will hold an HIV testing drive in 10 to 13 cities each year, sponsor educational programs and advertising, back grass-roots advocacy programs and provide scholarships for doctors willing to staff HIV/AIDS programs in the black community. Getting across the message isn't going to be easy. Despite his best intentions, Johnson can be part of the problem.
"Just last night, I did a seminar with a group of high school girls," Myisha Patterson, 25, national health coordinator for the NAACP, said Thursday. "I had them write down three things they knew about HIV/AIDS. Somebody wrote, 'There's a cure for AIDS. Look at Magic Johnson.' "

Johnson says he's anything but cured. He says he owes his well-being — and quite possibly his life — to the multidrug cocktail he takes everyday.
The drugs, GlaxoSmithKline's Trizivir and Abbott's Kaletra, are standard treatments used by many thousands of others infected with the AIDS virus, HIV.
Johnson can also credit luck and possibly the conditioning that comes from playing up to 100 heart-pounding NBA games a year.

The start of a crusade
The sad irony of the Magic Paradox is that Johnson has worked so hard to raise AIDS awareness among blacks. It had a huge impact on Nov. 7, 1991, when the man who led the Lakers to five NBA titles, called a news conference and said, "Because of the virus I have obtained, I will have to retire from the Lakers today."

At the time, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention had tallied about 200,000 full-blown AIDS cases in the United States, one-third of them among blacks. The CDC also reported that 57,879 people had tested positive for the AIDS virus at public clinics, 9,142 of them (16 percent) were heterosexual men and women with multiple sex partners.
Johnson vowed to fight the disease and to become a national spokesman on HIV. He urged young people to practice safe sex, and he pointed out that his plight illustrated beyond a doubt that HIV/AIDS wasn't only a gay disease: "Here I am saying it can happen to anybody, even me, Magic Johnson."

Johnson learned just how mortal he was Oct. 26, 1991.
A routine Associated Press story reported, "Without Magic Johnson, the Lakers lost their exhibition game to the Utah Jazz, 107-103, Friday night at the New Delta Center." The Lakers had attributed his absence to an undisclosed illness.

Shocking discovery
Recalling the events in an interview with USA TODAY, Johnson says team doctor Michael Mellman had summoned him back to Los Angeles without disclosing the reason for the call.

When Johnson arrived in Mellman's office, he got the shock of his life. "He begins to tell me, you know, I have HIV," Johnson says. "I never, ever thought that was what he was calling me back for."

Johnson had been tested as part of a routine examination for a life insurance policy.

He says the next two hours were among the toughest of his life. He worried about his wife, Cookie Kelly, who was two months pregnant, and Mellman couldn't offer much reassurance.

"As I got home," Johnson says, "I was just hoping and praying that she would stay with me. I think that was the main thing. ... As I told her I was HIV-positive she, of course, began to cry and asked me what that meant for (her) and the baby, which I couldn't tell her. But I told her I would understand if she wanted to leave me. You know, right at that time, she hit me so hard upside my head. And then she said, 'Hey, we're going to beat this together.' "

Five days later, Cookie's HIV test came back negative, Johnson says. "Then I started my own journey."

'The face of the disease'
Seeking guidance, the couple visited Elizabeth Glaser, the wife of actor Paul Michael Glaser and founder of the Glaser Pediatric AIDS Foundation. Glaser was infected with HIV in 1981 through a blood transfusion and unwittingly infected her children. She was dying, but she offered words of comfort and asked for something in return.
"She told me you have to become the face of the disease," Johnson says.

His preseason bombshell made headlines worldwide. Phill Wilson, head of the Black AIDS Institute, was the AIDS coordinator for the city of Los Angeles at the time. He says Johnson's announcement shut down his switchboard. "It was the single most powerful event at the time to raise awareness about AIDS in black America," Wilson says.

Kenny Smith, then of the rival Houston Rockets who now works with Johnson on TNT's "Inside the NBA", says, "Before then, people were ostracized, in my estimation, for having the disease. Magic was the person, because his name reached far beyond sports, to make (HIV) acceptable, more a disease than a mark of shame."

The next three years were difficult ones. Johnson missed being on the court, and the side effects of AZT, the only drug available at the time, made it hard for him to exercise. He suffered "mood swings" as a result of the stresses in his life.



spacer.gif

Find this article at:
http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2006-11-30-magic-aids_x.htm
 

Bbucko

Cherished Member
Joined
Oct 28, 2006
Posts
7,232
Media
8
Likes
326
Points
208
Location
Sunny SoFla
Sexuality
90% Gay, 10% Straight
Gender
Male
Nonsense...this only means that his daily antiretroviral cocktail is keeping the HIV concentration in his bloodstream below a detectable threshold.

Current therapies cannot target the virus within the lymphatic system. If he were to stop taking his meds, the viral load in his bloodstream would skyrocket.

Almost none of the meds (except for Sustiva and AZT) work at suppressing the virus anywhere other than the bloodstream. HIV is known to lurk in the lymphatic system, the central nervous system, and in the digestive tract. In fact, various amounts of the virus is found in every organ of the body.
 

Andro Man

Just Browsing
Joined
Jul 17, 2007
Posts
171
Media
0
Likes
0
Points
161
Ok. This is the last time I am answering this thread because you don't have the decency to actually consider the science behind it.

The current medical standard is to use ELISA & Western blot for HIV detection. If you look up "specificity" and "sensitivity", you will see that rarely are tests 100% for either. So yes, we do have false "+" and false "-", but that also happens with diabetes. Is your next thread going to question the existence of diabetes?

The reason for the different standards in different countries is because the different locales have a different tolerance level for the false "+" and "-" that I mentioned earlier.

I hope the rest of you understand what I am saying because I wouldn't want you to be tricked by this charlatan. If you have any specific questions, feel free to PM me, but it's not worth my time to respond to someone who won't even engage on the issue.


Geez now am a charlatan.....

More and more people on this forum are starting to remind me of the KKK burning Beatles records and claiming John Lennon's a devil for stating to a friend that at them moment religion didn't mean much to the youth in Britain, that the Beatles were more popular than Jesus was.

I should have indeed learnt my lesson when I said that you can't prove evolution occurred. So it wasn't a fact, and in fact it isn't even a theory.
More a model of reality.

I wasn't saying creationism and the bible made more sense, in fact evolution seems a hundred times more likely than what these guys are saying. All I was saying is that some of the basis premisses like life coming from something non-living hasn't been proved.

And straight away, like J.L was branded a devil, I'm branded a reliqious fanatic.

The world unfortunately for you guys isn't black and white


Same thing here I'm branded for posting 'subversive' material. And this to you guys is like how the nazi's percieved anyone even reading or in possession of subversive material that wasn't in line with Hitler's view of the world.

All I want is a discussion, but what do I get?

Insults and statements like I've got blood on my hands and I spit on the graves of people who died of aids.

What is this with you guys that makes you make these black and white, far out associations?

Is it the fast food, the meds, the climate?


And now this clown says that he knows the answer but his adult and scientific attitude prohibits him from telling me the points where the scientists in the video are wrong. So please someone else out there reading this, you(since he's too childish to tell me) ask him to point out where the scientists in the video are wrong and post it here.
If he knows it....great, maybe we can learn something.

If he doesn't, we can at least expose him as being someone pretending to know the answers when in fact he's just echoing the general opinion that hiv causes Aids without knowing the exact details


Anyway, the point you were making is not what it's about. I don't deny DIabetes exists, I don't deny HIV exists, and I don't deny Aids exists. But considering what the mainstream scientists say:
Hiv=aids=death.
And highly toxic meds that may or may not facilitate the end(selffulfilling prophecy)result.
I'd say you'd have to be damned sure that 1)that HIV exists(not having, like the link I posted, all these factors that can cause false positives) 2) that HIV indeed causes the deadly disease Aids
 

JustAsking

Sexy Member
Joined
Nov 23, 2004
Posts
3,217
Media
0
Likes
33
Points
268
Location
Ohio
Sexuality
100% Straight, 0% Gay
Gender
Male
... All I was saying is that some of the basis premisses like life coming from something non-living hasn't been proved.
Neither Darwin, nor the modern synthesis of the Theory of Evolution make any claims about how life originated from non-living matter. There is no basic premise about this in the Theory of Evolution.

... So please someone else out there reading this, you(since he's too childish to tell me) ask him to point out where the scientists in the video are wrong and post it here.
If he knows it....great, maybe we can learn something.

My point is that we will learn absolutely nothing from a bunch of laymen trying to argue the fine points of immunology, virology, and the immune system. It takes years and years of study to develop even a basic competence in this field. Any discusion outside of the actual professionals in the field are no better than a bunch of guys blowing smoke in a bar room.

... If he doesn't, we can at least expose him as being someone pretending to know the answers when in fact he's just echoing the general opinion that hiv causes Aids without knowing the exact details ...

If you are referring to me, I am completely exposed. I do not know all the facts about HIV and AIDS and neither does anyone else who has not made a career out of it. Debating this outside of the professional community is futile and pointless.

And yes, I am echoing the opinion of the professional medical scientific community because there is no other place to go for any kind of opinion that has a chance of being valid. Someone outside the community with a different opinion might actually be right, but there is no way of knowing that without doing the same thing that the professionals do, which is to publish it in professional journals and wait for it to be analyzed, duplicated, and put to practical use. Outside of that, its more bar room arguing.

If you truly want to find out about the veracity of the stuff in the video, perform the careful experiments yourself, form your conclusions, and submit them to a professional peer reviewed journal in the field. Then wait and see how the ideas hold up under systematic scrutiny.

Let me know how that works out for you, because (and this might be a surprise to you) a bunch of guys hanging around a big penis forum are not really qualified to answer your questions.
 

Andro Man

Just Browsing
Joined
Jul 17, 2007
Posts
171
Media
0
Likes
0
Points
161
Andro, you're an INTJ aren't you?

You overestimate me. I'm more the Graucho Marx(I wouldn't want to join a club that would have me as it's member) type ;)

I like to provoke or type the opposite side, if everyone says yes I'll say no just for the sake of it....so I'm flawed coz the majority is always right, right? They don't have to think coz they're the majority so they must be right, right?
 

Andro Man

Just Browsing
Joined
Jul 17, 2007
Posts
171
Media
0
Likes
0
Points
161
Neither Darwin, nor the modern synthesis of the Theory of Evolution make any claims about how life originated from non-living matter. There is no basic premise about this in the Theory of Evolution.

Implicitly either way they would have to since we're all meant to have evolved from the first living thing


My point is that we will learn absolutely nothing from a bunch of laymen trying to argue the fine points of immunology, virology, and the immune system. It takes years and years of study to develop even a basic competence in this field. Any discusion outside of the actual professionals in the field are no better than a bunch of guys blowing smoke in a bar room.

All I wanted was a little discussion. I didn't expect everybody to blow my head off for even raising the issue. I know I'm no expert, that's why I raised it in the first place. But I would expect people to first look into something before criticising it outright. I know it's a big dick forum, but you don't expect everyone to be so cocky without(as it turned out)reason.

If you are referring to me, I am completely exposed. I do not know all the facts about HIV and AIDS and neither does anyone else who has not made a career out of it. Debating this outside of the professional community is futile and pointless.

As I said, I expected people to watch the video and comment on what they saw, regardless of their background. Coz a lot of it made sense to me. And if it's even a tenth true could have serious implications.
I wasn't actually referring to you, but if you feel that I was you're probably right for doing so.

And yes, I am echoing the opinion of the professional medical scientific community because there is no other place to go for any kind of opinion that has a chance of being valid. Someone outside the community with a different opinion might actually be right, but there is no way of knowing that without doing the same thing that the professionals do, which is to publish it in professional journals and wait for it to be analyzed, duplicated, and put to practical use. Outside of that, its more bar room arguing.

If you truly want to find out about the veracity of the stuff in the video, perform the careful experiments yourself, form your conclusions, and submit them to a professional peer reviewed journal in the field. Then wait and see how the ideas hold up under systematic scrutiny.

Let me know how that works out for you, because (and this might be a surprise to you) a bunch of guys hanging around a big penis forum are not really qualified to answer your questions.


Considering the NIH is a military institute as mentioned before makes me somehow suspicious.
Again, all I wanted was a (healthy) discussion. I'm not trying to offend anybody....and I obviously don't expect this thread to be reviewed by medical expert and published as a paper
 

HazelGod

Sexy Member
Joined
Dec 11, 2006
Posts
7,154
Media
1
Likes
31
Points
183
Location
The Other Side of the Pillow
Sexuality
99% Straight, 1% Gay
Gender
Male
What wonderful timing...just this week, the folks over at Ars Technica have published an objective deconstruction of one of the more pervasive examples of pseudoscience, holding it up as a general model for criticism of all pseudoscientific claims.

It applies very nicely to this nonsensical "arguments" being presented against the causal link between HIV and AIDS.
 

Andro Man

Just Browsing
Joined
Jul 17, 2007
Posts
171
Media
0
Likes
0
Points
161
What wonderful timing...just this week, the folks over at Ars Technica have published an objective deconstruction of one of the more pervasive examples of pseudoscience, holding it up as a general model for criticism of all pseudoscientific claims.

It applies very nicely to this nonsensical "arguments" being presented against the causal link between HIV and AIDS.


I would regard this example as a nonsensical argument FOR the causal link between HiV and Aids.

Maybe you can present something more relevant HazelGod, aka Fuckwit
 

D_Gunther Snotpole

Account Disabled
Joined
Oct 3, 2005
Posts
13,632
Media
0
Likes
75
Points
193
I would regard this example as a nonsensical argument FOR the causal link between HiV and Aids.

Maybe you can present something more relevant HazelGod, aka Fuckwit


1) What is nonsensical about it, and what is irrelevant about it? I don't get it, Andro Man.

2) Anyway, changing the topic a bit, Andro Man: What do you make of people who don't take drugs, don't use poppers, don't have any of the purported alternative reasons for developing AIDS ... and get a blood transfusion tainted with HIV and begin the progression towards AIDS?

This now happens only rarely, but was quite common for a time, before better blood screening techniques were developed.

3) Of course it's fair that you play devil's advocate in certain situations. And even in this situation, some skepticism about a too-monolithic understanding of a disease's etiology might be salutary.
But Just Asking and other posters are right in saying that the experts speak overwhelmingly with one voice in saying that HIV is the cause of AIDS.
And since the experts are so close to unanimity, and since you are no expert at all (a deficiency which I share, to be frank), isn't your breast beating a little excessive?
 

Andro Man

Just Browsing
Joined
Jul 17, 2007
Posts
171
Media
0
Likes
0
Points
161
1) What is nonsensical about it, and what is irrelevant about it? I don't get it, Andro Man.
Sure if you're reasoning in circles or if you've got your head up your 2ndlife buddie's ass, then......(drum roll)it all makes sense.
Meaning if you believe that if you already believe HIV causes AIDS and that thus any other scientist that claims the opposite is a pseudo scientist....then yes, an article on pseudo science and homeopathic products is the perfect evidence that HIV causes AIDS

2) Anyway, changing the topic a bit, Andro Man: What do you make of people who don't take drugs, don't use poppers, don't have any of the purported alternative reasons for developing AIDS ... and get a blood transfusion tainted with HIV and begin the progression towards AIDS?

Depends on the reason, and of course what other immune suppressing junk was in the blood. I suggest you watch the video
This now happens only rarely, but was quite common for a time, before better blood screening techniques were developed.

3) Of course it's fair that you play devil's advocate in certain situations. And even in this situation, some skepticism about a too-monolithic understanding of a disease's etiology might be salutary.
But Just Asking and other posters are right in saying that the experts speak overwhelmingly with one voice in saying that HIV is the cause of AIDS.
And since the experts are so close to unanimity, and since you are no expert at all (a deficiency which I share, to be frank), isn't your breast beating a little excessive?

You may believe differently, but IMHO the scientific community is just like any other community. You only have to look at the responses I get for even asking if the ppl here will take a look at this video with an open mind.
Yes I believe there is also a hierarchie in the scientific community; yes I believe that scientists might be scared to voice a different opinion in fear of losing their reputation, funding or job.

This is no case of chest beating, all I was asking was to look at the video with an open mind, coz quite frankly (if true) a lot made sense to me.....I get called names, accused of all kinds of strange things for even naming the video. So if you wonder why the scientific community might be speaking in one voice and why the scientists that speak out, loose their job, reputation and source of income, generally ostracised from the scientific community.
You need only look at this forum to understand why.

And here there aren't even any financial interests at stake
 

Mem

Sexy Member
Joined
Jul 4, 2006
Posts
7,912
Media
0
Likes
54
Points
183
Location
FL
Sexuality
99% Gay, 1% Straight
Gender
Male
You may believe differently, but IMHO the scientific community is just like any other community.

Andro my Man. When people hear people saying that HIV does not cause Aids, it makes one think you are like the people who say...

We did not land on the moon...
September 11 was planned by the US government...
The earth is flat...

This is your belief, but you can't convince others of it.
 

snoozan

Experimental Member
Joined
Sep 23, 2006
Posts
3,449
Media
0
Likes
22
Points
183
Sexuality
No Response
You may believe differently, but IMHO the scientific community is just like any other community. You only have to look at the responses I get for even asking if the ppl here will take a look at this video with an open mind.
Yes I believe there is also a hierarchie in the scientific community; yes I believe that scientists might be scared to voice a different opinion in fear of losing their reputation, funding or job.

Have you ever thought that there are many people on this site with at least some science education who have looked at the same theories with an open mind? Have you not noticed that a lot of the respondents are people who have been touched directly by HIV and AIDS? Do you understand that implicit in some of these theories is that people with AIDS caused their own disease and maybe even somehow deserved it?

I don't think the reception you got is so much related to how closed minded we are here, but they way you presented it to us and continue to do so without realizing that you aren't saying anything new to most of the people here.
 

Andro Man

Just Browsing
Joined
Jul 17, 2007
Posts
171
Media
0
Likes
0
Points
161
Andro my Man. When people hear people saying that HIV does not cause Aids, it makes one think you are like the people who say...

We did not land on the moon...
September 11 was planned by the US government...
The earth is flat...

This is your belief, but you can't convince others of it.

That's the problem as I mentioned before. Too many ppl here don't look at what is being said, but simply the association that's made by you and the others (obviously strange things happened before during and after 911 but this just convinces me of the type of ppl I'm dealing with here)

The same goes for snoozan. I'm not implying anywhere that ppl deserved what they got. All I said was I'm not sure what to believe.But then ppl on this forum, without even looking at the video, dismiss me as being an idiot for believing a lot of what these scientists are saying. And then when I ask if they can indicate what exactly is wrong in what theyre saying, I get the answer that you can't expect any experts on a big dick forum.


If HIV causes Aids or something else. I'm obviously not saying AIDS is anything to be taken lightly
 
C

college22punk9

Guest
Well, since my occupation deals with medical/laboratory research I must interject since I didn't really see many who come from my background/industry. I can pretty much tell you that if there was another cause of AIDS and HIV wasn't teh cause, that scientists wouldn't be afraid to speak out about it. Do you not realize the competition and egos that some of these researchers have. They would love to prove everyone else wrong. I've worked wtih people who's whole careers are spent in researching AIDS and HIV, and possible medications.

I do get a little scared when people see videos and claim they are scientists, doctors, or experts, yet they dont have anything published in scientific journals that backs up their theories. We as a whole in this country put far too much credibility into the media instead of researching things on our own. Something we actually have a luxury of doing from our home pretty easily thanks to the internet. (and no, that doesn't mean wikipedia... it means getting a subscription to a research journal or two and actually finding out the facts for yourself, instead of listening to a stranger who tells you they are an expert, and just assuming they are.) And if you don't have the mental capacity to understand such journals.... e-mail 1 or 1000 professors at universities around teh world. They would definately be able to point you in the right direction.

In short..... fantastic media claims and videos might hold up better if they weren't just claims but actually had some sort of hard evidence to attack the other side of the argument that seems to have substantial proof.

Now, to who started this thread....... let's say society accepted there is no link to HIV and AIDS........ and someone made a short little video on the contrary... would oyu be arguing for that as well? Do you just like to stir up the arguments listening to the "underdog voice"/conspiracy theory or do you actually believe that HIV and AIDS have no connection?