Does HIV cause Aids?

[Andro Man]

Thank God, finally an expert, finally someone who can point out exactly what is wrong and the scientifically motivated reason that it is so.Finally someone that can say more than :"you idiot, it's just a conspiracy:"
Halleluja!

Go ahead mr scientist​

 

[Gillette]

Thank God, finally an expert, finally someone who can point out exactly what is wrong and the scientifically motivated reason that it is so.Finally someone that can say more than :"you idiot, it's just a conspiracy:"

Halleluja!​

Go ahead mr scientist​

I don't see you answering his question.

 

[Andro Man]

I don't see you answering his question.

Short answer: depends on what is in the video
It was always presumed that HIV caused AIDS, you expect scientists to know what theyre talking about. If you then get conflicting views that actually make sense...then I don't know what to believe.

I've got the common sense to dismiss a lot of stuff that's out on internet(Auswitz a holiday camp for jews, earth is flat, blabla, ufo's), so if you're trying to say I'm gullable for believing Oswald didn't shoot Kennedy, 911 was an inside job , and their story(if true, but maybe the scientist here can point out if it's not) that there is no link between HIV and AIDS(obviously not going to bet my life on it) then it should be really easy to do as I asked.

 

[college22punk9]

hey i was just saying there isn't this secret scientific heirarchy that is fooling the world... I mean i'm sure there are some corrupt high ups in some of these companies, but does that influence every private research group in the universities, public and private research groups corporate or otherwise.... doubtful, especially because most of these university professors who are doing research want to bring fame and $$$ (grant money) to the university. What better way to do that then prove everyone wrong. I think if there was conclusively no link between HIV and AIDS, then I think we would have seen some journal publications stating that science's hypothesis on HIV - AIDS link is false.

Also.... if it is false..... why were HIV+ people still getting AIDS when there were no drug cocktails available when the disease first started to arise.... maybe the government was injecting people at random, right?

I mean sometimes the right answer is simple, and it's not as complex as people make it out to be.

We know there are more than one thing that causes AIDS, but I believe, based on journal publications, personal accounts, and scientific research, that HIV is definately one of the causes. If you don't think so, then when you test positive, don't take the drugs and see what happens and report back.

 

[JustAsking]

hey i was just saying there isn't this secret scientific heirarchy that is fooling the world... I mean i'm sure there are some corrupt high ups in some of these companies, but does that influence every private research group in the universities, public and private research groups corporate or otherwise.... doubtful, especially because most of these university professors who are doing research want to bring fame and $$$ (grant money) to the university. What better way to do that then prove everyone wrong. I think if there was conclusively no link between HIV and AIDS, then I think we would have seen some journal publications stating that science's hypothesis on HIV - AIDS link is false.....

College22punk is totally correct. Scientists make their fame and fortune by discovering something new. You don't win a Nobel Prize by proving something that is already generally known. If you have ever worked with scientists, they are all as bad as engineers. Each one of them comes to work each morning ready to show the world how much more clever they are than everyone else. They hate dogma and hate traditional assumptions.

Each one of them wants to go all the way back to first principles and find the thing that no one else could find. I know this because I have worked for two major universities in Physics and Chemistry departments.

These guys are a special breed and they want to rely on nothing else but their own cleverness and their own creativity.

On the same token, however, they all know what it means for something to be "proven" in the scientific sense. They walk a fine line between using established theories as if they were facts while working on a related problem, or realizing that all theories are provisional, and will be replaced by better ones in the future. They all dream that they will be the ones to create those better theories.

This is the stuff that the scientific community is made out of. And if anyone here thinks that scientists go to work every day and deliberately live a lie or a conspiracy, then you need to put on your tin-foil hats to ward away the UFOs.

I am telling you that if anyone made even a slight case that was real for AIDS being caused by some new phenomenon, then scientists would be all over that like a cheap suit in the rain, trying to be the first to corroborate it and publish it.

Can I get a witness, college22punk?

 

[Andro Man]

hey i was just saying there isn't this secret scientific heirarchy that is fooling the world... I mean i'm sure there are some corrupt high ups in some of these companies, but does that influence every private research group in the universities, public and private research groups corporate or otherwise.... doubtful, especially because most of these university professors who are doing research want to bring fame and $$$ (grant money) to the university. What better way to do that then prove everyone wrong. I think if there was conclusively no link between HIV and AIDS, then I think we would have seen some journal publications stating that science's hypothesis on HIV - AIDS link is false.
It was stated in the video that the NIH is a military organisation. Is the army known for its dialogue and open communication?Or is more along the lines of Zum Befohl...and then when things turn out wrong...Ich habe es nich gewusst. The top determines who gets the funding, which research gets financed. If a soldier steps out of line he'll either be disciplined or face the firing line(in a manner of speaking).
If I were a scientist and I saw no proof that HIV caused AIDS but the safe bet was that ppl with AIDS were HIV, and I couldn't offer a solution to AIDS or an alternative hypothesis of what then did cause AIDS. Would I put my livelyhood and reputation on the line?

Also.... if it is false..... why were HIV+ people still getting AIDS when there were no drug cocktails available when the disease first started to arise.... maybe the government was injecting people at random, right?

What about all HIV ppl that didn't get Aids, if it were that obvious there would have been a lot more ppl dying of Aids. Even considering all the ppl that didn't even know they were Hiv+.
And there were was a marked rise in Aids deaths when the first cocktails came on the market, coincidence?

I mean sometimes the right answer is simple, and it's not as complex as people make it out to be.

We know there are more than one thing that causes AIDS, but I believe, based on journal publications, personal accounts, and scientific research, that HIV is definately one of the causes. If you don't think so, then when you test positive, don't take the drugs and see what happens and report back.

I don't think I'd even want to know. If I knew and I was HIV+, even if I felt completely healthy, which I do, I think the knowledge alone would kill me. HIV=Aids=Death....somehow not a very consoling thought. It reminds me a bit of a negative placebo effect.
Like this guy that heard from his doctor that he was dying of cancer, there was a drug but it was only in its testphase, so the doctor told the patient about the promising results of this drug and gave the man ....placebo.....and the cancer disappeared. Years later the same doctor told the media about this, the patient found out......and the cancer came back and he died.

And even with safe sex, can you be 100% sure you wouldn't contract a STD? what about kissing, blood in the mouth, what about being in a packed disco either drunk or whatever and some fucker injects you with an infected needle, there a needles out there you would hardly feel......

Anyways, this whole HIV thing is a huge paranoia trip, now it's not just nuclear bombs we have to worry about even something as basic as fucking or going on a bus or aeroplane is a worry.

Does a government see any merit in having their population live in fear? you tell me. I'm sure religious groups, pro life etc are applauding Aids whatever the cause is.

 

[HazelGod]

Don't bother feeding it anymore, fellas...its refusal to understand logic and reason aren't accidental.

A troll's main goal is usually to arouse anger and frustration among the message board's other participants, and will write whatever it takes to achieve this end. One popular trolling strategy is the practice of Winning by Losing. While the victim is trying to put forward solid and convincing facts to prove his position, the troll's only goal is to infuriate its prey. The troll takes (what it knows to be) a badly flawed, wholly illogical argument, and then vigorously defends it while mocking and insulting its prey. The troll looks like a complete fool, but this is all part of the plan. The victim becomes noticeably angry by trying to repeatedly explain the flaws of the troll's argument. Provoking this anger was the troll's one and only goal from the very beginning.

 

[Andro Man]

Don't bother feeding it anymore, fellas...its refusal to understand logic and reason aren't accidental.

A troll's main goal is usually to arouse anger and frustration among the message board's other participants, and will write whatever it takes to achieve this end. One popular trolling strategy is the practice of Winning by Losing. While the victim is trying to put forward solid and convincing facts to prove his position, the troll's only goal is to infuriate its prey. The troll takes (what it knows to be) a badly flawed, wholly illogical argument, and then vigorously defends it while mocking and insulting its prey. The troll looks like a complete fool, but this is all part of the plan. The victim becomes noticeably angry by trying to repeatedly explain the flaws of the troll's argument. Provoking this anger was the troll's one and only goal from the very beginning.

Now looking at this definition I would say anyone claiming someone else is troll is a troll him/herself. Anyways I've been at the receiving end of most of the insults. And the reason people here are getting angry, is because one person misreads or projects some dark intention on to what I'm supposedly meant to be saying. Consequently all 2nd life friends read what he wrote(without even reading what I wrote or what it was about in the first place) and misconception upon misconception gets stacked....I'd get angry if even half of it was true what was written about Andro Man. They start their namecalling and insinuations and nobody even comments on the video.
Anyways I would look at your own argument for HIV causes Aids Hazelgod to determine what illogical actually means.

My goal was discussion, if you people cant debate without getting abusive
then I'm a troll; so when a person has a deviant opinion...he's a troll, dismissed! Is that how you debate in the great US of A?
I suppose you still have witchhunts as well?
She's different, she must be a witch. Let's scientifically prove it by drowning her if she survives she's a witch and she'll burn, if she doesn't she's in heaven now.

Something like that. Gowdy gosh, I don't understand a fuck about what this Andro dude is on about, let's call him a troll and be done with it

Now I understand why Bill Hicks was so popular in Europe and got booed of by the audience in the US. You really are the puppetpeople!

 

[HazelGod]

Anyways I would look at your own argument for HIV causes Aids Hazelgod to determine what illogical actually means.

Look all you want, but you'll never find it because I've never posted any such. Perhaps such an exercise in futility was what you had in mind to illustrate the meaning of illogical? Or were you just falling back on the strawman to soften the landing of your plunge from the bridge?

 

[Andro Man]

I'd say if you're claiming anything that says HIV doesn't cause AIDS is pseudoscience and then backing it up(as if it were an argument)with a piece on pseudoscience and homeopathy...You're right, it isn't an argument, only circle reasoning.
I'm sorry if I misquoted you actually coming up with arguments for your statements.

 

[snoozan]

did you say you were going to jump off a bridge yesterday. just go on and do it already! :biggrin1:

 

[Andro Man]

did you say you were going to jump off a bridge yesterday. just go on and do it already! :biggrin1:

There are some seriously fucked up people here on lpsg.

Read what I said, not what some 2nd life person thought I said, coz otherwise...you'll miss the plot, and the plot thickens when you've got your head up his ass.

 

[snoozan]

There are some seriously fucked up people here on lpsg.

After considering the things that you've said, I agree 100%. There are definitely some seriously fucked up people here on LPSG.

Read what I said, not what some 2nd life person thought I said, coz otherwise...you'll miss the plot, and the plot thickens when you've got your head up his ass.

Regarding being close-minded and not considering your video-- I read books on the same thing years ago, and I followed Duesberg relatively closely for awhile. I read his and others' articles, then I read the refuations, then the refutations of those. It was a subject I was interested in, and since I was a biology major at the time, it also fit nicely into my studies. For a time I also worked at an HIV clinic. I, personally, have done the research that you haven't. There are many position papers out there discussing this subject from both sides. Don't think you're the first person who has come across this.

As I asked before, have you not considered that many of the people posting to this thread have already done research and read about this topic and are making an informed refutation of it instead of some blind following of the CDC Army?

From my experience, education, and research, it's junk science. Go to Google and you'll find scores of articles on both sides. Come back after that and convince us why all of those articles saying HIV does cause AIDS are wrong.

After all, you brought it up, so the burden of proof is on you. I have yet to see you bring up any legitimate points or science to debate about the subject, but instead only calling people close-minded and parroting what you saw on that video.

I, for one, will debate you on this when you start talking about scientific methods, immunological principles, mechanisms of infection, infection rates, etc. etc. Until then you're just talking tinfoil hat bullshit.

 

[ManiacalMadMan]

did you say you were going to jump off a bridge yesterday. just go on and do it already! :biggrin1:

There are some seriously fucked up people here on lpsg.

Read what I said, not what some 2nd life person thought I said, coz otherwise...you'll miss the plot, and the plot thickens when you've got your head up his ass.

Yes Snoozan he volunteered to jump but not from a bridge it was from a building as seen in this post http://www.lpsg.org/1020095-post24.html


As to you Andro Man if you really want to find out if HIV can become AIDS perhaps you should go have a sexual encounter with an a person who is HIV+ Then again, I can not even despise you that much Just try doing some research for your own health safety.

 

[Andro Man]

After considering the things that you've said, I agree 100%. There are definitely some seriously fucked up people here on LPSG.
Saying you'd have to be seriously fucked to seriously be considering suicide makes me a seriously fucked up person, I see....

After all, you brought it up, so the burden of proof is on you. I have yet to see you bring up any legitimate points or science to debate about the subject, but instead only calling people close-minded and parroting what you saw on that video.

You're right there hasn't been a debate on the points stated in the video. The closest this thread has come to a debate is on the point if you can dismiss something outright without even watching it, or not. Or if my posting a video on this topic makes me a culprit in the Aids deaths or not.

I don't see why the burden of proof is on me, when all I said was that I was confused after seeing the video. First scientists say HIV causes AIDS, then theyre are scientists that say there is no proof of that.They said I was an idiot for believing it. Then I'd say why. Point out the points in the video that would make me gullable believing it.
I'm not saying ppl are closeminded if they watched the video and still weren't convinced. What I call closeminded is dismissing something outright without even watching it

I, for one, will debate you on this when you start talking about scientific methods, immunological principles, mechanisms of infection, infection rates, etc. etc. Until then you're just talking tinfoil hat bullshit.

If you're the expert you can point out the points we're theyre lying or coming up with false conclusions. If you can and it makes sense, theyre is nothing to debate

 

[HazelGod]

Pull up some railing, y'all...I'm happy to share some stones to flick at it.

 

[Andro Man]

Pull up some railing, y'all...I'm happy to share some stones to flick at it.

Please, get a life man!

This topic isn't about winning a popularity contest, otherwise yeah you're right I'm a troll and I lose

 

[B_dxjnorto]

In post 107 it does sound like Hazel describing himself sometimes.

Other than that, this thread is going nowhere.

 

[JustAsking]

...After all, you brought it up, so the burden of proof is on you. I have yet to see you bring up any legitimate points or science to debate about the subject, but instead only calling people close-minded and parroting what you saw on that video.

I, for one, will debate you on this when you start talking about scientific methods, immunological principles, mechanisms of infection, infection rates, etc. etc. Until then you're just talking tinfoil hat bullshit.

I think I am in love, snoozan. You simply rock.

 

[JustAsking]

In post 107 it does sound like Hazel describing himself sometimes.

Other than that, this thread is going nowhere.

This thread started out nowhere.