Gay men - a question?

[AndrewEndowed24]

Sorry, dude. You know the way people get stuttery when they are speaking while under duress. I think that the more complicated a topic, the more stress your intelligence is under and the and the wierder your sentence structure and word choice end up being. The smartest people have both wit and clarity.

still- some of the 'big words' are used because they are the most precise terms possible. It would be a drag to have to write out the meaning of correlation (two qualities having a relation such that when someone or something has one of those qualities, he is more likely than not to have the other.) every time you want to say that.

 

[AndrewEndowed24]

really? common sense would seem to indicate the opposite. in the majority of cases, in order to accumulate a large amount of wealth, one would, by necessity, need to be stupid enough to spend a correspondingly large amount of one's time earning or otherwise acquiring it.

Whether that is smart or stupid depends on how much enjoyment you get out of spending the money. Yes, i'm sure that more smart people than stupid people opt out of the rat race, but that doesn't mean that many or most do.

 

[Lordpendragon]

I am drawn to the idea that two people with similar IQ's or intelligence can appear to be of different intelligence if one party has more time and a more conducive environment to exercise their brain.

 

[AndrewEndowed24]

In what ways would they appear to be different, in the decisions they make and the things they figure out? Or would it be more in their failure to make subtle refrences to 13th century mystic poets or whoever its stylish to know?

 

[B_dxjnorto]

I am drawn to the idea that two people with similar IQ's or intelligence can appear to be of different intelligence if one party has more time and a more conducive environment to exercise their brain.

I can't give you a specific reference, but it is a well researched idea in the study of child and human development.

The two buzzwords are enriched and impoverished. If a kid is kept locked in a closet, that's an impoverished environment. If a kid has a room full of toys and books that's an enriched environment.

In extreme cases, even sensory organs would not develop properly. If you have dim light in the closet and don't get out until you are fourteen, your vision may not develop normally. There are actual case histories, and animal studies of course.

Recent research shows a relationship between child abuse and size of some brain structures. The nature/nurture debate has been resolved by studying nature via nurture. For instance where a genetic tendency toward schizophrenia is brought out by a chaotic upbringing.

 

[Lordpendragon]

Vocabulary from reading more widely?

 

[headbang8]

Do any of you smart gay guys have smart liberal mothers and wealthy dads?

Not sure if I'm a smart gay guy, but the answer in my case is no.

My mother came from working class stock (her father was an Italian stonemason). She went to law school, but still maintained her working class outlook. For example, she gave up the law when she married my father, a steelworker, and we lived on his income.

At least in part, I'm living proof of what Alex writes about. One of the reasons it took me so long to wake up to my own homosexuality was that in my house, it was just unthinkable. Never discussed, never acknowledged, not on the radar, not possible. A sexually impoverished environment, if you like.

Confirmed bachelors in my parents circle of friends were just that--if they were, indeed, gay, then they were deep in the closet for fear of getting beaten up on the factory floor or in a local Deer Hunter bar. Nobody could afford the luxury of being out. Money can buy your way out of a lot of homophobia.

The only time I got a whiff of gay was when we first came to learn musical instruments in the fourth grade. I had heard plenty of Brazilian jazz with the flute as a lead instrument, and liked it. But I was informed by my mother that the flute was a girl's instrument, and my father didn't approve. The tone was angry, like there was something wrong with me for choosing it. I said that I didn't know why--there were plenty of men who played flute. More rage, but never an explanation that this was not about boy/girl, but masculine/effeminate.

I can remember myself as a college age man, being surprised that there was such a thing as a gay students' society, and wondering what exactly it was.

Do only the smartest working class gay guys have the means to escape, and the self-awareness to conclude that they have to work out a gay life for themselves? Alas, I suspect so. Thankfully, it's changing.

 

[AndrewEndowed24]

um actually word knowledge is more highly correllated to all other iq subtests than any other single subtest. It has a .8 correllation with one's composite iq. That's one of the reasons the verbal sat is considered a quick and dirty iq test. (and they are altering it because of that so as to limit its effectiveness in scouting out intelligence)

Brazil, I completely agree with all you just said.

 

[Dr. Dilznick]

i think you guys are like, tryin to come off as intelligent as possible. what i mean is like, yer using big words just to seem smart, ya know?

LPSG certainly has its fair share of wannabe intellectuals. Despite the overuse of "big words" their posts never contain any original or thought-provoking ideas; they're just an exercise in mental masturbation. Anyone with a university-level reading comprehension knows that being succinct and cogent is much more important than breaking out the thesaurus whenever possible.

 

[AndrewEndowed24]

*cracks knuckles

 

[Lordpendragon]

um actually word knowledge is more highly correllated to all other iq subtests than any other single subtest. It has a .8 correllation with one's composite iq. That's one of the reasons the verbal sat is considered a quick and dirty iq test. (and they are altering it because of that so as to limit its effectiveness in scouting out intelligence).

So how do you develop a vocabulary if you neither read nor have an environment in which a rich vocabulary is used?

This could condemn you to a low IQ - so I am tending to agree with those who consider them only good for telling you if you are well prepared for IQ tests.

 

[hung]

Or maybe a better way to ask the question. Does a large penis mean more brains?

We have all heard the time worn statement that males think with their penis. Therefore, taken to the limit, a male with a larger penis has a bigger brain.

Enough said. This is submitted to help clarify the situation. I do not have a formal education beyond almost 13 years. Translate 1 1/2 years of a Liberal Arts Education - Major: Pizza and Beer.

I can speak a fair amount and enjoy this site. I also hope that I assisted in my own small way to this topic.

Summary: Bigger Penis equals Bigger Brain.

 

[AndrewEndowed24]

but because vocabularly is correlated to one's performance on non-vocabulary based parts of the test, occam's butterknife would say that one's ability to understand unfamiliar words based on hints from contexts i(which is how you acquire a decent vocabulary) is just a good measure of that innate ability that also helps you do math or arrange blocks. That is, having a poor vocabulary doesn't necessarily cause you to have a low iq because every test is full of non-vocab related items, but it is correlated to it because it measures a deeper ability that helps you do all of those non-vocab subtests.

But, hey they aren't perfectly related. CS Lewis struggled to make change in shops all his life. It is estimated that Jews are disproportionately gifted in verbal and mathematical areas and below average in visual-spatial abilities, while asians are just the opposite, emphasizing math and mental imaging with less of a verbal bent. We are blind men trying to describe the elephant in the room when it comes to intelligence measures.

 

[Lordpendragon]

But, if you already know the word, you don't have to spend time thinking about it, and would have more time for other questions.

 

[Lordpendragon]

Major: Pizza and Beer.

This could explain the Renaissance.

 

[AndrewEndowed24]

But, if you already know the word, you don't have to spend time thinking about it, and would have more time for other questions.

well, what i mean is that is how you acquire vocabulary in the first place, my point was that vocabulary isn't just a matter of diligence, but has qualities that are more clearly related to reasoning ability.

 

[Lordpendragon]

well, what i mean is that is how you acquire vocabulary in the first place, my point was that vocabulary isn't just a matter of diligence, but has qualities that are more clearly related to reasoning ability.

I am sure that there is much truth in this, but probably not the whole picture.

 

[DC_DEEP]

well, what i mean is that is how you acquire vocabulary in the first place, my point was that vocabulary isn't just a matter of diligence, but has qualities that are more clearly related to reasoning ability.

Granted, to some degree. One can increase vocabulary, one can increase knowledge, but one cannot increase intelligence. Unfortunately, every intelligence-measuring instrument I know of has to rely on mostly knowledge and vocabulary to measure intelligence. Sure, there are a few items on every test that attempt to measure reasoning, but often those measures are biased by vocabulary.

Neither intelligence nor gender identification nor sexual orientation is dependent upon the social or financial status of the parents. More affluent parents undoubtedly can provide better access to those things which will nurture an intelligent child, but a blue-blood mother and rich father have no more chance of producing an intelligent child than any other egg and sperm donors. Brilliance is often found amongst abject poverty, and stupidity just as often appears in families listed in the social register.

I will stake whatever reputation I may have on the theory that whenever such correlations are found (excepting such genetic or environmental influences as Fragile X Syndrome or drug abuse), the sample is flawed.

 

[AndrewEndowed24]

look, i'm not saying that word knowledge and reasoning are the same thing, i am same that word knowledge is often indicative of reasoning ability. Because the process of learning what words mean is most often done through collecting hints based on context, that is, pattern seeking. Vocabulary and reasoning have a relationship of (you guessed it) correllation, not causality or identity.

You are right that brilliance is can be found in abject poverty, in fact it might even be said to often be found in places you don't expect it. Still, that does not contradict the fact that it is correllated positively with income. I don't get what's so complicated about this, the reason wealth is correllated to intelligence is because intelligence helps you get wealth and intelligence (like wealth) is hereditary to a certain degree, so parents' incomes matter.

I should also note that the wealthy are actually becoming more intelligent and the poor are getting dumber in america because of many of the meritocratic efforts in higher education. 1930 the average iq of a harvard grad is estimated by sociologists to have been around 119, now its 135. The reason? the SATs, the opening of admission to non-wasps (jews particularly) and the further development of and improvements in public education, these all gave smart poor kids the boost they needed. To enumerate: The SATs provide an easy way of categorizing people by intelligence and can present a direct route to the american elite for anybody, regardless of income, who manages to ace it. The economy is far less nepotistic today than it was 70 years ago, fonce amily businesses are now run by impartial boards and business is becoming more and more complicated. Everything about the american life is moving to help the intelligent get wealthy. But, this doesn't mean that if you are intelligent you can bet on being wealthy... its such *more* likely that you will be today then it was before...

I've said it before and I'll say it again: INTELLIGENCE IS PROBABLY NOT CORRELLATED TO SEXUAL ORIENTATION ITSELF. it is probably slightly correllated to the leading of an OPENLY gay life style because of the seeming correllation between intelligence and vaguely liberal values (in the lockean rather than the clintonian sense) in our society and the correllation between intelligence and income. Intelligence allows gays to avoid poorer communities where traditionalist outlooks are more common, forcing them to hide their identities out of fear. confer headbang's post and also my earlier ones.

 

[B_nocock2big4me]

I find that the level of conversation on LPSG is well above average for most web sites. As for gay men being more intelligent..... I think that you will find a wide gamet of intelligence levels across all sexual preferences ranging from dumber than a fence post to rocket scientist (of course the gay men go for the pocket rocket).