Gender indentification

[B_Stronzo]

If it's "silly" heather, then what pray tell to you is substantive?

I think (in spite of this thread's initiator and his subject) this thread has really cleared up many people's positions on a pretty key issue; the irrelvance of labels per se.

If, in the mix, the "p" person's premise was addressed way beyond anything he could begin to comprehend so be it. Makes it decidedly less than silly to me.

Many of us, I suspect, have learned from it.

 

[Lex]

...

Most of you have not been here very long and don't understand the value of being able to say what you want to say HOW you want to say it. That's fine, but the board isn't going to change to accomodate the newer members. If you come into anyplace and start demanding things change to accomodate YOU, you will likely be laughed at, then insulted, then dismissed. That's all that's happening here, n00bs don't make the rules, or tell the mods how to run the site.

...

I don't think a lot of people really understand how good you have it here in terms of being able to speak your mind.

Mrs. Lex belongs to a BrokeBack Mountain forum. On that site, there are many threads, but only the Mods can start threads. No poster can start a new topic.

They discuss the movie, the actors, slash fiction created in its wake and the writings of fellow members (Mrs. Lex is an author).

When posters break any of the rules (talking about Health or Jake in a fiction thread), posts are deleted without warning or discussion. A rule: Don't reply and quote a post with a pic, making the pic get copied again. If you do, you post will be deleted or edited. Without warning.

It could be a LOT worse.

 

[madame_zora]

This was my first message board too though. I remember feeling awkward about learning "the rules" when there weren't any posted. My way was to read more than I posted until I could fit myself in, and I had to take corrections from several members in order to achieve that. It's all good.

 

[B_Stronzo]

I don't think a lot of people really understand how good you have it here in terms of being able to speak your mind.

Mrs. Lex belongs to a BrokeBack Mountain forum. On that site, there are many threads, but only the Mods can start threads. No poster can start a new topic.

They discuss the movie, the actors, slash fiction created in its wake and the writings of fellow members (Mrs. Lex is an author).

When posters break any of the rules (talking about Health or Jake in a fiction thread), posts are deleted without warning or discussion. A rule: Don't reply and quote a post with a pic, making the pic get copied again. If you do, you post will be deleted or edited. Without warning.

It could be a LOT worse.

Much worse indeed.

The board to which I belonged for two years prior to this was just as stringent as the one you describe Lex. All your points are well-taken and I think we'd all better thank our lucky condoms that we have the liberty we do here.

It's the reason this board is so damned addicting I suspect.

 

[dong20]

Who ever said the board was about tolerance and respect? This is the very thing I fought so hard to avoid- as far as I am concerned, that is the LAST thing I care about!

By board I mean its members who are in effect the board. I'm not talking about being nice or polite...hehe as if. Tolerance in a broad sense is a major issue among many of us at least in the 'real world' and it seems logical to expect a token effort to exercise it here to some degree at least in theory and while that's generally what happens, this just seemed a noticeable exception and somehow just 'wrong'. But Lex is right, it could be a lot worse.:tongue:

While I can understand many of your points, I felt that that discussion would divert attention for THIS specific issue. I wasn't trying to ignore you or discount the time you put into your post.

Thanks and I didn't think you were. Though to me, the 'issue' was well and truly massacred before I ever said anything.

I have no problem with anyone telling anyone else they are an asshole, I'm just saying it's not necessary to act like one while doing so.

That works for me, well, I at least try to make it do so.:biggrin1:

 

[madame_zora]

By board I mean its members who are in effect the board. I'm not talking about being nice or polite...hehe as if. Tolerance in a broad sense is a major issue among many of us at least in the 'real world' and it seems logical to expect a token effort to exercise it here to some degree at least in theory and while that's generally what happens, this just seemed a noticeable exception and somehow just 'wrong'. But Lex is right, it could be a lot worse.:tongue:

I can understand that point, so I'm going to quote something I was writing to someone in a pm:

I know his objections are to what he perceives as "bad manners". I think it's bad manners to BE rude, but most people just think it's bad manners to SOUND rude. They think if you phrase something nicely, that makes it acceptable, and I vehemently disagree. I'd rather someone bluntly call me a bitch than dance around it with flowery language, then expect me not to be offended.

More likely than not, it is our societal differences (merkin vs. British) that direct our views here. I don't see being blunt- even crass as a problem, but I understand that many people do.

Thanks and I didn't think you were. Though to me, the 'issue' was well and truly massacred before I ever said anything.

After you see things like this enough times, it becomes prudent to head them off at the pass. Let something like this fester, and it becomes intolerable quickly. I'm sure we can remember a few prime examples, no?

That works for me, well, I at least try to make it do so.:biggrin1:

Yes, that works for you, and that's your communication style. I can appreciate that, it's just not mine.

 

[GoneA]

...needless to say Pinchulon, your entire proposal is, ultimately, pointless in that anyone can say they're whatever gender they want ... doesn’t mean it's true.

...but please, don't let us inconvenience you with that thought.

 

[Wonderboy]

I thought this thread was going to be about gender identity in humans; is it decided at birth (fixed) or is it affected by life experiences (fluid)

And now I find this! For shame! hehe

Anyway...I don't want to hook up with anyone from here so it matters not whether someone is male, female, intersexed, mammalian or anything. The contents of posts is all I'm interested in.

I don't see why this is an issue (unless you're looking for a hookup or cyber delights)...

 

[madame_zora]

I thought this thread was going to be about gender identity in humans; is it decided at birth (fixed) or is it affected by life experiences (fluid)

And now I find this! For shame! hehe

Anyway...I don't want to hook up with anyone from here so it matters not whether someone is male, female, intersexed, mammalian or anything. The contents of posts is all I'm interested in.

I don't see why this is an issue (unless you're looking for a hookup or cyber delights)...

Ding! Ding! Ding! We have a winner.

 

[dong20]

I can understand that point, so I'm going to quote something I was writing to someone in a pm:

I know his objections are to what he perceives as "bad manners". I think it's bad manners to BE rude, but most people just think it's bad manners to SOUND rude. They think if you phrase something nicely, that makes it acceptable, and I vehemently disagree. I'd rather someone bluntly call me a bitch than dance around it with flowery language, then expect me not to be offended.

More likely than not, it is our societal differences (merkin vs. British) that direct our views here. I don't see being blunt- even crass as a problem, but I understand that many people do.

Perhaps though I never thought of you as a merkin. I agree with the blue though I'm not looking for good 'manners'..on a public internet board about dicks...hardly. Manners are what one does not merely what one says, though here words are all we have. No, I have no problem with whatever language is used, I mean it's just words.

There's a place for any and all styles or language fair and foul. What just seems a waste here is using the latter because it's perceived by the user as adding 'clout' to the point being made where to me it usually (but by no means always) does the reverse; it dilutes it. I can be as rude as anyone, it's just not my normal MO....yet.:smile:

Yes, that works for you, and that's your communication style. I can appreciate that, it's just not mine.

I ask for no more....:wink:

 

[hung9mike]

...your entire proposal is, ultimately, pointless in that anyone can say they're whatever gender they want ...

Indeed. In fact, I've come across a few profiles here that have a mismatch of their identified "gender" and what they say in their posts. But I don't think that this always means that these people are trying to be deceptive. I'm sure in many cases that they have just filled out their profile information incorrectly.

And, for what it's worth, I checked my own profile and discovered that I don't have my gender identified. But I think, given my ID and the fact that I have my picture as my avatar, that no one should have any trouble recognizing that I am a guy. :tongue: If you really need to know the gender of a particular poster, they will reveal it to you in the context of their posts. Otherwise, it's none of your business.

 

[madame_zora]

I can be as rude as anyone, it's just not my normal MO....yet.:smile:

Stick around a while, I used to be a delicate little flower!:biggrin1:

Can we at least pretend we were fighting so we can have some mind boggling make-up sex?

 

[Lex]

Stick around a while, I used to be a delicate little flower!:biggrin1:

Can we at least pretend we were fighting so we can have some mind boggling make-up sex?

Break up to make up
That's all we do
First you love me, then you hate me
That's a game for fools!!

 

[rawbone8]

Stylistic romance points to Lex. R Kelly cut to the chase.


Make up, and break up
That's all we do
Then we have sex, next thing you know
Everything is cool
Best of Both Worlds! Holla at your boy

Like we always do about this time
Uh-huh, yeah
I know what you doin ma
Tryin to get in an argument with me so I can
do my mad thing, you want me to do my mad thing
I understand - c'mon!

Seems we're always arguing, but
Right after the arguing we have, sex
And somehow it's the best, yes
Seems we're always arguing, but
Right after the arguing we have, sex
And somehow it's the best girl

 

[AlteredEgo]

So witch one are you talking about when you say someone?

Oh, you clever, clever man!

 

[AlteredEgo]

...but most people just think it's bad manners to SOUND rude. They think if you phrase something nicely, that makes it acceptable, and I vehemently disagree. I'd rather someone bluntly call me a bitch than dance around it with flowery language, then expect me not to be offended.

I once started a thread about his very concept...:biggrin1:

Lex asked are there cirmumstances in which gender would make a difference, well there are, violence is one, if a man provokes me to violence I will hit him, extending that logic and thus implying I should punch out a women with equanimity doesn't sit well with me at all.

I just fail to see how that applies to a message board. Is someone planning to perpetrate violence against one of our posters? Many of the other posters on this thread stated that most posts give up the gender of the poster in their contexts, and the rest, simply do not require the reader to know the poster's gender. Someone may have accepted Pichulon's examples on their face, but they really were piss poor. All of his examples made the reader curious about sexual orientation, not gender. At least that's what I remember thinking as I read them.

I am going to have to agree with the majority on this one, especially after many private exchanges with Pichulon. He has no questions, only preconceived notions on which he will not permit persuasion (so do I, but I don't go around asking questions!). He's got deep-seated bigotry against homosexuals. He claims to love and protect women, but his speech just seems to make most of us feel pidgeon-holed and subjugated. He makes things up, too. I posted about words I said to him in private, and he sends me a message decrying me for exposing his private conversation with me. I never have, and perhaps never will publish what he said to me. *shrug* I think the members here have demonstrated that they will not put up with bigotry in many threads here, especially of late. It angers us, at our core. Pichulon said exactly the right things to piss us off. I think if his abhorence for certain people had been overt, he'd never have been so viciously attacked. But becasue (dare I say it?) his biases were veiled behind politeisms and niceties, people took a special delight in making him stop.

But then again, I've been wrong before, and I promised myself I wouldn't comment on these matters, and I'd avoid certain topics.

 

[madame_zora]

It's all good Bronx, I knew you'd understand. It definitely gets up my crack when someone insists they're being polite just because they haven't used curse words. That's total rubbish, and I'm just not going to put up with it. I can't imagine why it would matter unless you were looking for hook-ups, and this ain't the hook-up forum. After reading his insulting posts, I can't imagine anyone, male or female, would be interested anyway.

 

[Ethyl]

It's all good Bronx, I knew you'd understand. It definitely gets up my crack when someone insists they're being polite just because they haven't used curse words. That's total rubbish, and I'm just not going to put up with it. I can't imagine why it would matter unless you were looking for hook-ups, and this ain't the hook-up forum. After reading his insulting posts, I can't imagine anyone, male or female, would be interested anyway.

Aw, c'mon MZ. That inflexible mind? Who could resist?

 

[B_Stronzo]

I think if his abhorence for certain people had been overt, he'd never have been so viciously attacked. But becasue (dare I say it?) his biases were veiled behind politeisms and niceties, people took a special delight in making him stop.

I never found his abhorence for women and gay men anything but just that; overt. He just liked to watch himself type more than most.

 

[findfirefox]

I will say that I responded to Pichulon in a childish manner, but I respond to people who are acting like a child in a manner that fits.

Someone may have accepted Pichulon's examples on their face, but they really were piss poor. All of his examples made the reader curious about sexual orientation, not gender. At least that's what I remember thinking as I read them.

That's basically what I argued against his examples, he was looking for orientation not gender. I still believe (and have since he started posting on the site) that he is homophobic, I also will continue to treat him like a child until I believe he has matured and when I get an apology for what he called me.

No matter how "polite" he acts he will still be homophobic and sexist to me.