Infidelity

[Ms.Teacher]

I think it has to do with how you were raised or something.

That does play a big part in it.

I come from a traditional background. My parents are still happily married as are my aunts and uncles. They don't go cheating or opening up their marriages; they work on whatever the problem is.

IMHO it is well nigh to impossible to discuss why infidelity occurs without discussing the morality of such at the same time. The truth and everbody knows this, is that infidelity is immoral.

And that's how most of us have been brought up, and many of us still stand by it.

If you are the person who has been cheated on there is nothing anyone can say that will justify that persons actions. If you are the person who went outside of the relationship for sex you will most likely never believe you were wrong in your actions.

I believe that wholeheartedly. It's difficult for people to admit they're wrong.

I don't think there is any circumstance that would lead me to cheat on my partner. I've photographed people having sex, porn and some group sex parties and nothing happened.

I don't understand the "it just happened" excuse so many people use. I can be in front of a dozen people fucking and nothing is gonna happen. What is so difficult about monogamy? Aren't we evolved beings in control of our primal urges?

I find your post fascinating. You're seeing all this sex go on working in the porn industry, and you're not even part of the action. You're keeping it in your pants. You love your partner, and what you said is it in a nutshell:

"Aren't we evolved beings in control of our primal urges?"

Of course we're in control of our urges, unless any of you are sex addicts, and I haven't heard anyone fess up to that. Monogamy is not difficult. People like to believe that it is because they want to keep that fantasy going that other people desire them. And they don't want to work on making things interesting with the partner that they have.

Cheating and open relationships are a copout.

People work on a marriage because they feel it is a common goal or ideal. I say work because any life commitment gay or str8 takes a great deal of work. We're only human, we make mistakes, we work on them, help each other through them and in the natural course of things get passed them.
Forgiveness to a point is a powerful thing, saying NO even more powerful.

Some people will not allow the word "no" into their vocabulary.

So then, polygamy. How do you deal with the issues related with that lifestyle? For instance what if the man gets tired of all the women he has at home and goes out and has sex with someone new? Isn't it the same thing with single partner relationships? How much happier are they than someone who chooses this as a life choice? Does he keep adding partners? When is enough, enough? I am not judging here, I am just trying to weigh out when you are actually listen to your consciousness over your need for sex with more than one person here?

It starts off slowly and then escalates.

If you choose to have sex with whomever you please, why bother with any kind of a relationship? Is it because you too need a companion of some sort, a companion that doesn't care you are out sleeping with others?

The million dollar questions for sure.

I'd hate to think sex has to be thought of as manic need for multiple partners and justified as such just because history or personal opinion deems it to be so.

Very well though out post, oh_yeah!

Every relationship has to be negotiated on several fronts--this is essentially why we date: to find someone with whom we feel overwhelmingly compatible and with whom we share mutual life goals.

You make it sound so business like it's almost creepy.

For a lot of people, they are committed and they are open. They are honest and have sex outside of the relationship and all is well. A fuck is a fuck. They love each other deeply and feel strong enough within their love to not care if one or the other has sex with someone else. Thsi explains many people's "horror" over some gay male relationships and married swingers.

When you love someone deeply, a fuck is not just a fuck. If you love someone that deeply, you don't need other people. Open relationships are for people who desire something that their mate can't provide. It's not about love. It's about lust and being unable to control our primal urges as the other poster said.

My brother is gay and has been in a monogamous relationship with his partner for about 8 years. They are constantly hounded by their "friends" to open up their relationship, have three ways, orgies, together, apart or whatever.

They are not interested.

People who think that somehow their mate will never be interested in another person are living in denial. People are attracted to people regardless of how "head over heels in love" they are. This is why many a mate gets upset over porn, for goodness sake.

It's normal to fantasize about other people. It doesn't by any means you have to act on your fantasies.

My partner and I have talked about this. We started as a closed relationship and decided that as a couple, if we wanted to play with another couple or person, that we would (And we have). We decided that this type of play should feel natural and not forced. It needed to feel 100% comfortable. And it did.

Well, that's unfortunate that you need other people when you're in love.

We decided that neither of us would play alone--ever. We further decided that if, at any time, one of us felt that they wanted to play alone or that we needed to readdress our boundaries, that we would. Those are the rules. They work for us. They may not work for you. And we are alright with that. Why aren't you?

I was reading a post earlier by a woman who's a swinger. Things started off wonderful and now it's turned into somewhat of a nightmare. It's heartbreaking and I feel for her.

http://www.lpsg.org/84121-anyone-experience-this.html

People, IMO, really are putting the focus on the wrong thing. Emotional commitments outside of relationships are far more damaging than a sexual tryst.

Yes, that is your opinion. When I'm with a man, I don't want him having sex with other women. Period. And most women feel the same way.

I know my man loves only me deeply.

That's true. And you should be enough for him and he for you.

I could care less is he wants to fuck The Rock. If he were in love with another man, well, that would be much more threatening to our relationship.

He or you could fall in love with one of those other people you have sex with.

And as I stated in a prior post, one of my girlfriends got involved in a open relationship and now has an STD--the kind that never goes away.

 

[D_Kaye Throttlebottom]

i was in a relationship one time where i was cheated on, to me what made me the most upset was that it put my life at risk by possibly exposing me to std's. fortunately i didn't catch anything before he confessed to the affair, but i'm surprised noone has mentioned how many stds are spread through infidelity. people wearing condoms usually don't spread std's (in some cases) so that means the people spreading/contracting them are people not using condoms which is practiced largely in "monogomous" couples. trust is relative to me, but putting my life in danger like that is liable to get you cut

I don't think this point is under-stated in these discussions and most focus on the emotional damage and trust or fixate on the fun of the risk or unhappiness of their relationship. I feel the same way, cheating and doing so unprotected is a level of selfishness that I cannot forgive. If you want to put your health at risk - go ahead, you've got my best wishes, but you cannot come back to me afterward, like you just had some harmless fun.

I wish someone could explain to me why some are so willing to throw that to the wind - the selfishness of it - yeah I get it - you're too thickheaded to think it won't happen to you - then do that and be single, don't make that decision for me.

 

[D_Kaye Throttlebottom]

People, IMO, really are putting the focus on the wrong thing. Emotional commitments outside of relationships are far more damaging than a sexual tryst.

Tell that to a woman that gets cervical cancer from the HPV she contracted as a result of her husband's little dalliance outside their relationship. Not your issue - you're in a relationship with a man - congrats. Oral HPV contracted by oral sex is on the rise.

I'm not criticizing you that you are not monogamous. You are honest about with one another - so you're not cheating him, but you are testing your boundaries, with the rules at any time if we feel too involved with someone else, stuff. Again - you are honest - that is what works for you.

What I resent is this idea that what you are doing is without physical risk aside of the emotional torpedo you are bringing upon yourself. Whether it is right for you, isn't what I object to - it's this idea that the extra-cirricular physical activities are less a risk than the emotional damage.

 

[No_Strings]

If you are the person who went outside of the relationship for sex you will most likely never believe you were wrong in your actions.

I believe that wholeheartedly. It's difficult for people to admit they're wrong.

I knew my reaction was juvenile

I swore never to do that again.

behaved irresponsibly

I regret how I handled the situation.

The selective reading and judgmental shit some people come out with is really quite embarassing.

 

[Drifterwood]

The selective reading and judgmental shit some people come out with is really quite embarassing.

Especially when you consider that they are frigging off over other men's big cocks.

 

[No_Strings]

Especially when you consider that they are frigging off over other men's big cocks.

I wasn't kidding about the MMMMMMMMMMFFFFFFFFFF, by the way.

 

[Phil Ayesho]

WAgain though, I'm not sure I understand your point.

once more with feeling...

The dick in the pussy is not the only definition of infidelity. Being unfaithful can happen in many ways.
The point was that when folks say the person having extramarital sex is ALWAYS in the wrong... I am saying the person having extramarital sex may well be reacting to a betrayal of a far more insidious sort... that happens over a far longer period of time.

Keeping faith WITH each other follows from keeping faith IN each other.

In short... any person treating their spouse like shit is the one CREATING a circumstance in which sexual infidelity is likely to occur.

IF they can recognize this in time... and re-examine their own treatment of the one they purport to love... they can prevent affairs from even being considered.

If, on the other hand... they cop the attitude that they can behave any way they please...be as harsh and cruel as they like... and their spouse has to simply sit and TAKE it... then they are the ones to blame for any subsequent consequences.


That same person... with a more loving spouse, would never have cheated.

The OP asked people if they would cheat on the spouse/partner/LTR? Those of us who have said no, seem to be constantly defending our response from those who have said yes. Why isn't it ok for us to not want to cheat?

No post I have seen has said that.
Nobody WANTS their spouse to cheat... the argument is over the morally absolutist argument of it always being wrong.


Its an argument that seeks to absolve one party of any responsibility for the dynamics that lead to the affair.

Its an argument of making demands on your partner...

And, for those without any serious time under their belts, their protestations of monogamy ring hollow when they simply change partners the moment the going gets the slightest bit rough.
That's not exactly having affairs... but its not that far removed.

True monogamy is ONE partner for a lifetime... not one for a few years. and then change.

If cheating is ok with you under certain circumstances, then good for you. Is it ok for it to not be ok with me under any circumstances?

Again, try and grasp this... its never really okay... but it might be understandable.

I love my woman with all my heart.
If I found out she had cheated it would shatter me like glass.

But my first reaction would not be condemnation of her and a smug feeling of moral superiority for me...

My first reaction would be to ask why? What had I done, or failed to do?


If, in talking it thru, she expressed that I had been distant, dismissive, ignoring her needs and desires... cruel or unloving....
then I would have to reflect on that and see if she might be right.

And if so... then it might simply be something we could work thru to a better rapport in the future...

What folks with longer relationships here are saying is that SERIAL monogamy is no more moral.

That folks who change partners often really have never been testes as to what they would or would not do....

 

[HyperHulk]

1. In short... any person treating their spouse like shit is the one CREATING a circumstance in which sexual infidelity is likely to occur.

2. True monogamy is ONE partner for a lifetime... not one for a few years. and then change.

3. That folks who change partners often really have never been testes as to what they would or would not do....

1. Sorry but I can't buy this for myself. This suggest that the person who cheats has no control over cheating--they were forced to it by their partner's unreasonable behavior. For me, it's about choice and there are other ways I will address these issues with my partner without resorting to cheating. If I buy what you're saying, that's no different to me than a husband who hits a nagging wife and says, well you made me do it, as his defense. I'd like to think I would have other options available to me.

2. I have no problems accepting that this is your definition of true monogamy for yourself. I'm hoping that your not suggesting that I, or others need to accept your view for it to be some absolute law. I personally don't feel that way. I don't even know how that would work--the first person I date is my partner for life? When is that decision made? What if my partner is abusive, I'm stuck for life in that relationship and have to work it all out? For me, true monogamy is what my partner and I agree is monogamy and we honor that agreement and communicate with each other--openly, honestly and routinely.

3. Well, I readily admit I haven't been in a relationship that has lasted for 18 years to really test it's boundaries. I don't think that disqualifies me from not wanting to cheat on my partner. The relationships I've had that have been tested, have, well, not survived those tests in the end. That's fine with me because it allows to seek to have relationships that are aligned with mutual wants, desires, needs and values. People change in relationships and they can grow together or grow apart. I don't think it's the end of the world if a relationship ends. I merely strive to treat all partners with respect and dignity. Personally, if I lie to my partner, betray their trust and cheat on them, when I know it's something that would hurt them, then I feel I would have violated my vow of respect and dignity. For me, that's unacceptable. I'm ok with a relationship ending, but I'm not ok with treating someone badly while in that relationship. That's fair enough isn't it? Well, for me and my life, it has to be. I respect however you manage your relationships, please allow me the same courtesy.

 

[snoozan]

Well, you have to appreciate that, for those of use in really long term relationships, you're not being monogamous.

Jumping ship the minute your passion starts to wane, or your eye to wander, is NOT being monogamous. Its being promiscuous, one person at a time.

I think this point deserves to be repeated.

 

[HyperHulk]

I think this point deserves to be repeated.

Well, if you believe this represents your thoughts too, that's great. Again, I believe differently for myself. I wrote, that if eye wanders or the passions starts to wane, then it's time to ramp up the communication and explore what's going on in the relationship and if those things can't be resolved, it would be best for everyone to move on. And I meant this in terms of my relationships, not as a blanket statement for how all relationships should occur. Also, I would rather a partner break up with me and find someone who is a better match then continue to be with, while cheating, and then seeking to resolve issues after cheating. If cheating on your partner helps you maintain the relationship, then power to you. I don't see how there can be any objection to people who feel differently. I have never said that cheating is wrong for anyone but myself in my relationships. Why do the rest guys feel the need to tell everyone what true monogamy is or isn't? If that's your view for yourself, fair enough, but it doesn't need to be everyone else's.

 

[Phil Ayesho]

2. I have no problems accepting that this is your definition of true monogamy for yourself. I'm hoping that your not suggesting that I, or others need to accept your view for it to be some absolute law.

Dating certainly doesn't count. What counts is when you have made a promise... for most that comes in the form of wedding vows.

But again... serial monogamy is unimpressive. Monogamy can not be a relay race... 3 years, 5 years, 7 years... and then changing partners?

...married couples often go this long before even being tempted.
5 years faithful is a snap for anyone who really wants to be monogamous.
7 years it gets a little harder...

By 15 years... trust me, you and your partner's faith in each other have been tested... bent, bandaged... and either survived... or not.

And its almost never only ONE person's fault.

3. Well, I readily admit I haven't been in a relationship that has lasted for 18 years to really test it's boundaries. I don't think that disqualifies me from not wanting to cheat on my partner. The relationships I've had that have been tested, have, well, not survived those tests in the end.

Being "better" than your mate... demanding an impossibly severe moral rectitude is one of the most common wedges that drive people apart.

Again... "wanting" has nothing to do with it. Every decent person wants to keep their promises... wants to be true.

Given enough time, circumstances change...the forces being applied to you and your partner change.
You change.

If you have relationship after relationship in which your partner fails to keep faith with you, you must sit down with a mirror and ask yourself, why?
Is it the kind of person you are attracted to?
Is it something about how YOU apply pressure in the relationship?
Are you suspicious? jealous? controlling?

If you are picking good people... and they are all, after a few years, doing the same thing... could there be something about your behaovir that drives them away from you?
Because if they ARE good people... then they WANTED to be faithful, too, at the start.
Perhaps they feel that you have broken your faith with them long before they did with you...

I'm ok with a relationship ending, but I'm not ok with treating someone badly while in that relationship. That's fair enough isn't it? Well, for me and my life, it has to be. I respect however you manage your relationships, please allow me the same courtesy.

this leads me to conclude that you are the one ending your relationships, because they don't measure up, or because you feel they are treating you badly...

Trust me... I have been there... I ended a 15 year marriage over the way I was being treated... I know how you feel... but for 15 years, and my sons, I fought to save that relationship.


Of course you can run your life anyway you please and I am not trying to do anything but explain posts you seemed to question.

But just the same... what if you are expecting something from others that is not really possible?


All I can say is, if you have not seen it...
Rent the "Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind"

No other movie ever really faced this issue of how love survives nor explained it as well...

 

[Drifterwood]

Why do the rest guys feel the need to tell everyone what true monogamy is or isn't? If that's your view for yourself, fair enough, but it doesn't need to be everyone else's.

Because it's central to the issue.

Don't go congratulating yourself for being monogamous in a string of short term relationships. That isn't monogamy, it's short term sexual fidelity.

Monogamists don't move on from relationship to relationship. Monogamists make a committment and see it through. When you or others have done this and passed the test of serious time, then please preach to the rest of us about your morality.

In reality the real monogamists here haven't preached at anyone. Do you know why?

 

[HyperHulk]

Fair enough Phil and Drifterwood, I'll bow out of this conversation. I'm not married and don't have a 15 year or whatever relationship. It seems you both suggests this disqualifies me from wanting to be monogamous in relationships. I guess the only people who could advance my arguments are couples who have been married 15+ years and have stayed monogamous. I didn't realize that communicating issues before it leads to cheating was an unrealistic expectation in a long term relationship.

The OPs question asked if you had cheated on a partner. My answer was no and I gave my reasons why. I didn't realize that the OP had intended this question only for those who have been married for 15+ years.

I isolated my justifications to myself and my own choices. You both seem quite insistent in applying your world view to others and believing that your view is the "correct" one and the rest of us are naive and inexperienced and unqualified to comment. I can't argue with you on these points as you framed them because if you're holding me to your standards, I'll always lose. Not once did I attempt to hold you to mine. I merely supported my own decisions for myself. Apparently that threatens you both.

Lastly, based on your arguments, I'll take the my optimism of serial monogamy without cheating over your bleakness of long term monogamy with occasional cheating any day. To each their own.

 

[Drifterwood]

Don't be a sulky Hulky :smile: The OP was about people who had strayed into infidelity, it didn't ask for people to get on high horses and patronise other people.

Take a read of this.

Varieties of monogamy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Drifterwood]

I just read the whole thread.

Ms. Teacher - you have a morality. Your morality says that monogamy is normal. But actually your morality wants you to think that it is normal. Both are self-fulfilling constructs.

However, you will not accept that mongamy is not biologically the "norm" and you probably don't wish to brush up on the three types of monogamy that biologists identify. However the fact is that you are wrong, and by association your morality is flawed. You only need to change the word from monogamy though, but I have seen your type before, and you like to appropriate things for your own world view. Hey ho.

I am fucking a married woman. She started as my friend. Sex is not part of her marriage. It has become part of our friendship. I don't think that she is cheating. Sex isn't part of their relationship, so how can she be? I don't think our activities even bear mention to her social monogamy partner.

 

[Principessa]

Because it's central to the issue.

Don't go congratulating yourself for being monogamous in a string of short term relationships. That isn't monogamy, it's short term sexual fidelity.

Well said!

Monogamists don't move on from relationship to relationship. Monogamists make a committment and see it through. When you or others have done this and passed the test of serious time, then please preach to the rest of us about your morality.

Maybe, that's why I have sometimes described myself as being a serial monogamist. I tend towards long term committed relationships. Heck, the one Friend With Benefits that I had, I had known since high school and we saw each other intermittently over a span of 3 presidencies. :tongue::redface:

In reality the real monogamists here haven't preached at anyone. Do you know why?

Because non-monogamists never want to listent to us. :duh: Also, it's hard to speak on the subject of infidelity and morality without sounding condescending.

 

[D_Kay_Sarah_Sarah]

If the relationship was unhappy then id call it quits but i dont think i could ever cheat, have to much of a guilty conscience.

 

[The Dragon]

Tell then why is it, if I am sitting alone in a bar while my girlfriends are dancing on the floor, it will always be the married men (wedding bands very much in place) who will hit on a girl sitting by herself? Where is his wife?
Why is he at a bar alone? Does she know he is out? and why would she not toss him out on his arse if that was the case?

 

[Drifterwood]

[

Because non-monogamists never want to listent to us. :duh: Also, it's hard to speak on the subject of infidelity and morality without sounding condescending.

No :smile:

I think it is because they know how hard it is. And whilst some don't wish to be monogamous, many who do and try, fail. It's not very nice to rub people's noses in it.

 

[HyperHulk]

Tell then why is it, if I am sitting alone in a bar while my girlfriends are dancing on the floor, it will always be the married men (wedding bands very much in place) who will hit on a girl sitting by herself? Where is his wife?
Why is he at a bar alone? Does she know he is out? and why would she not toss him out on his arse if that was the case?

I'll take a couple guesses here: I would imagine that he's headed out after work or he's told his wife he's with his mates. I've also noticed that married men and men in relationships tend to be a bit fearless when approaching people because they have nothing to lose. If they get knocked back, they always have someone to go home to.

I would also imagine that many women don't toss out the guy because, they either aren't aware of the affairs or they are afraid of being a single mother or the change in life style. Look at how many women stay with guys that physically abuse them. People will endure and justify quite a bit, no matter how painful.