Redefining Bisexual

Discussion in 'Relationships, Discrimination, and Jealousy' started by DevonTexas, Sep 17, 2011.

  1. DevonTexas

    DevonTexas Well-Known Member

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    I've had to clarify my sexual preferences several times and some people argue with me on what I am or feel. Which is silly, only I know what I like and don't like.

    So, should we re-label what guys like me ...like? IE: I don't want to date guys - zero interest. I date, hold hands, kiss, fuck and fall in love with females. Period. With guys, I want to get naked, do some oral, massage, body contact, jack and basically just 'get off' to each other's 'maleness' (oh, and no anal). That's it.

    In the past, I've said I'm 'bi', but that doesn't seem to actually fit who I am apparently. Any others out there like me? Or ideas on what the category would be?
     
  2. B_derbytom1976

    B_derbytom1976 New Member

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    I don't believe that people are "gay" "straight" or "bi".

    Obviously, these are labels created by the society we live in. The labels exist for other people's convenience, so they can define you, rather than for the freedom of the individual.

    My personal preference is not to define myself, or anyone else.
     
  3. Padad7

    Padad7 Member

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    I agree - no need to explain or define anything. Just be and do what feels right.
     
  4. mandoman

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    I'm with you.
     
  5. monel

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    Why do you need a new definition with which to label yourself? Call yourself "DevonTexas" and be who you are.
     
  6. ZOS23xy

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    I like women. Fell in love and married one. I like sex with men, but find I can only get so involved with them. The sex is a good release, and it answers something in my soul.
     
  7. D_Terry_Tugnuts

    D_Terry_Tugnuts Account Disabled

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    I agree with the others, be what you are and don't worry about labels.

    Here in UK it's generally accepted in the swinging community that 'bi-curious' means you don't fuck with the same sex, 'bisexual' means that you do. People use these terms in their on-line swinger profiles so potential swing-partners know what to expect.
     
  8. Silvertip

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    I am EXACTLY like you and I agree with the other posters to this thread; i.e. labels are not the solution, they're the problem!
     
  9. aninnymouse

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    I think a lot of men are like that. They view women for romance and love, and men for more sexual situations. That's one of the reasons that you find so many men who identify as "straight" but then have sex with men.
     
  10. shard38

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    Agreed. Labels are the problem. I love the answer Wendy Pini, author of "Elfquest" once gave when asked if her characters were bisexual. She responded: They're elfs. They're omnisexual. They'll do anything they like.

    Or Lukas Ridgeston once said in an interview: "I'm not heterosexual or homosexual or bisexual. I'm just sexual". Very healthy approach :)
     
  11. sykray

    sykray Active Member

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    I quite agree with all the posts. I've argued against the use of labels on several threads here. It may be that each individual has his or her own unique sexual orientation.

    My doctoral research thesis, 30 years ago, was about how men conceptualise or label their sexual orientation. It reinforced my belief that sexual orientation labels are cultural and/or psychosocial concepts and have limited usefulness.

    Label yourself (or not) as you choose but don't expect anyone to understand or totally agree with your label or its absence.
     
  12. bigballstoo

    bigballstoo New Member

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    I hear you man!
     
  13. Phil Ayesho

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    ... and yet... everyone on here comes up with a label... and most with some iconic avatar...
    I am willing to bet that most of the people on this site label themselves with clothing styles, the cars they drive, grooming choices, and many with tattoos...


    Labels are necessary and imagining that you can do without them, or rise above them is just fooling yourself, or a wooly excuse for thinking.

    There is a reason men label themselves as straight, despite an interest in sex with other men, a reason biker guy all look like the are punched out by the same factory, a reason all el caminos are driven by assholes.
    Brand Identity was not invented and forced upon consumers... it was invented because consumers WANT to be labeled, stereotyped, and identified as having certain traits, or fitting in with certain crowds.

    Like it or not, the vast majority of people advertise themselves... Gangsta wearing jerks WANT you to know they are bad asses before you even get close enough to speak.

    So lighten up about the fact that you all label others, and, really, want to be labeled, yourself.

    You just don't like it when you are MIS-labeled... or when someone doesn't get the message.

    ( for example... if you are looking for fun, you absolutely would LOVE it if every guy in the room who was willing to have sex with another guy was identifiable by sight... and that they could identify you as similarly interested )

    So I applaud the OPs suggestion of new, and more nuanced labeling.

    Something more accurate than just "bi"


    How about "Roman"? they were a culture whose men preferred relationship with women
    but were more than willing to enjoy sexual release with other men...

    And "spartan" if your tastes ran more toward relationship and sex with men, but willing to have family with women?


    I don't know... but the biggest trouble, it seems to me, with 30% guys, is finding the other guys who feel the same...
    who won't get too emotionally attached because they are more gay than straight.

    That is NOT because people are labeled... and it won't get easier if NOBODY was labeled.
    Its because there isn't a good enough label for other like minded folks to take the risk of approaching.
     
  14. B_derbytom1976

    B_derbytom1976 New Member

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    I see your point but I disagree.

    Some people do crave to project an identity for themselves - as you point out - and actively choose to embody the dress styles and behavioural codes of a particular scene, but I would suggest the real reason for doing this is actually out of insecurity, out of the fear of not knowing who they are without the falsely constructed projection. The label they adopt is not who they really are at all, merely a symptom of their own conformity.

    So at the moment, as it stands with sexuality, people are expected to conform to one of three different labels - gay, straight, or bi - and some simple minded folk believe that these labels define all the posibilities that can exist for a human. Obviously, this is severely limiting, and untrue.

    I don't think it would really be much more liberating to have a couple of extra labels - "Roman" or "Spartan as you suggest - to remedy the current status quo. Additionally, having to subscribe to a particular label doesn't allow for the fact that tastes vary and change over time.

    I do think you are right to point out that having a fitting label for oneself would assist in finding the right partner(s) for your preferred activities; that's a fair point. But for myself, I'm not sure I could pin it down, and there might be days where I'm not up for a particular activity I might be into on a different occasion. Also, every label comes with a price - because there will be those that approve and disapprove of whatever it is you are saying about yourself. Of course, that might not bother some people so much.

    I agree most of all with shard38's point, in quoting Lukas Ridgeston "I'm not heterosexual or homosexual or bisexual. I'm just sexual."
     
    #14 B_derbytom1976, Sep 19, 2011
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2011
  15. AlteredEgo

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    I like "heteroflexible".
     
  16. Silvertip

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    That line certainly provides proof of your own bigotry and totally invalidates everything you said in your post.
     
  17. Phil Ayesho

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    ...Said the driver of an el camino.

    Seriously... can you wrap your head around the fact that your response is equally stereotypical?
    You know nothing of me and such a comment reveals that you accept as proof nothing more than your own prejudice as to what other people should or should not say.

    In fact... I was merely listing several standard stereotypes... with no assertion whatsoever of my own beliefs in any of them.
    So... your dismissal is perfect evidence that even those decrying stereotyping, are the ones doing that very thing in the assumptions they draw from very little evidence.
     
  18. Phil Ayesho

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    The following is excepted from several PM's I sent to Derbytom in a private discussion of this issue.
    i share a portion of my own thoughts as I feel they are pertinent.



    The point is that anyone capable of discerning that they are symbolizing reality and categorizing experience as simply a means to make quick assessments and guidelines, is also capable of understanding that those assessments are just rough guesses and always subject to refinement or rejection based upon reality.

    Turn to any personals ads in any paper.... or go to any dating site...
    What will you find?

    People Labeling Themselves as to interests and preferences...

    "men looking for men" "Women looking for men" "Man looking for couples"... the and specificity of the labeling is WHY these means of hooking up do so much better for those who are looking for a very specific person.

    I have to maintain that any idea that labeling and stereotyping is "wrong" is simply a failure to understand how critical it is to how human beings think. We could no more stop it than we could stop dreaming.
    Its how we are wired.

    You might find out thru conversation that a guy dressed as a gangsta is really a sweetheart... and thus re-categorize HIM. That does not mean that being wary of guys dressed that way is invalid, overall, because guys who ARE dangerous DO dress that way specifically to warn others of their dangerousness.

    Again... its a nice thought to imagine everyone is unique... but they are not... they are MOSTLY categorizable.
    If not, advertising wouldn't work and movies would not find appreciative audiences.


    You do not HAVE to label yourself as others do... but the way others label you DOES matter... because you have to come to grips with the fact that they do so...
    And, unless you want to live entirely socially isolated from others, to a certain extent, you have to play along.

    For example... if everyone thinks you are gay, but you are straight, then that tells you something about how YOU behave, because people are identifying you by what they observe. In such a case, this perception of you as gay may seriously get in the way of your finding a suitable mate, or even getting a date.

    You have two choices... you can rail against the societal assumptions about masculinity and homosexuality and demand the entirety of humanity stop stereotyping. ( good luck)... or you can change your behavior to fit in with what people consider "straight"... in other words, figure out why folks think you're gay and change that.

    We are not JUST individuals. We live in and utterly rely on a community of our fellows.

    A man's standing in the community is no better than what people say about him behind his back. Its not necessarily fair... but it is absolutely true.


    Your community DEFINES your standing within the community.... all you can do is hope to influence it thru your actions.

    This is the way nature works... you can be an oddball, unique and special... But MOST females are attracted to a certain handful of traits... this is driven by biology, not their beliefs, so it is not going to change.

    The more you chose to NOT fall into a known category, the slimmer you make your chances of finding everything, from work, to a circle of friends, to a mate.

    You are free to do so... but then to rail against the fact that everyone else is finding mates, jobs, etc BECAUSE they understand that labeling is useful and they take advantage of it is spurious.

    How about creating a label that others who are like you will be able to adopt?
    that, or take a marginalized or dismissed label and re-define it.



    The label of homosexuality has changed over the past century... and that because of the combined efforts of a huge GROUP of people, all of like mind, and like conduct, who strove over a generation to redefine the label... not to eliminate it. These people found each other in bars that were labels, and moved into communities that were labels, and adopted iconography that were labels.

    The social response to homosexuality changed BECAUSE of effective brand labeling.


    Again... for men who love women and still like to have recreational sex with guys... the BEST option would be to FIND each other and create a NEW label to define and identify themselves.

    Back in the day, gay men used to stuff a red handkerchief in their back pocket to identify each other in a crowd.

    Anyone who doesn't want to live their lives alone, who wants to share common interests and passions with their fellows, would do better by embracing labeling, rather than eschewing it.


    In fact, It is thru the denial or rejection of a valid label that society manages to injure both individuals and groups… Not by labeling them... but by refusing to accept a label they desperately prefer or need.

    For example, gay people desperately want access to the label of "married", and the societal recognition that confers...

    It is the denial of that label that they protest.


    and, in our case... the remnant of homophobic prejudices, coupled with the "all-or-nothing" attitude toward any homosexual tendencies that is embraced Both by the straight community and actively advocated by the gay community are what conspires to deny the full spectrum of bisexuality to be recognized and accepted.


    It is not the label of bisexuality that is the problem... it is the fact that Both straight and gay communities express skepticism that such a thing exists...
    The assumption that ALL 'bisexual' males are simply in denial of their total homosexuality.

    That is not labeling.... its the rejection of a label as being valid.

    In essence, it is by denying a group a label that you marginalize them, ignore them, and pressure them to try and be something they are not... Not by labeling them.
    Any group can take a marginalized label and, like the gay community, re-define it as acceptable… it simply takes activism and visibility, and time.


    So, again...
    the mistake people make is in demonizing the idea of a label... rather than people's tendency to deny acceptance or recognition to those who do not fit in their particular label.

    What all people seek is a word or other mental symbol with which to feel identification, thru which to find others like themselves.

    It is tribal. it is built into our brains.
    It is how we process our experience of the world and of ourselves.


    Think of it as marketing.
    You, as a product you are trying to sell to that demographic that seeks what you have to offer.
    The Gay community has done a great job of building their brand.
    Its time for those with wider sexual interests to build their brand.

    Only then will people of mixed sexual repsonse have true community and belonging.
     
  19. Silvertip

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    Actually, I've never driven an El Camino.

    Nothing stereotypical about it. Anyone who uses absolutes (i.e. ALL El Caminos are driven by assholes) in that manner is expressing bigotry.

    Your loquaciousness is hardly a substitute for logic.
     
  20. D_buhjbgy7yr5

    D_buhjbgy7yr5 New Member

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    At last somebody with some sense, I am definately with you I am exactly the same and glad you posted this opinion
     
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