Again, I'm not expecting you to help anyone out. All I'm saying is that if one form of discrimination and prejudice is wrong then so, by definition, is another. Just because other forms of terrible prejudice have victims doesn't mean that lesser forms of prejudice don't have any. What you're saying, in effect, is that nobody should raise penis size shaming as a form of prejudice or expect support because there are so many worse forms of prejudice. You're using that argument to derail my argument that penis size shaming is wrong by bringing in other aspects of prejudice on a thread that is about penis size shaming.
If you're going to debate at that level then I could say that women who complain about body shaming mysogynistic male pigs should STFU because millions of people were murdered because of prejudice in the Second World War. My number is bigger than yours etc etc...
Funny that, if it wasn't so disingenuous.
Yeah no. I'm saying and have said that not only is it wrong but that it's a specific kind of wrong. A specific kind of wrong that had people given a shit about other kinds of wrong would be considered on the same level as wrong as other things.
And...
(There needs to be some sort of commission now for hate speech and body shaming. If this was said by a male star about women's breasts and vaginas and a male reporter said that the comments made the ticket price worth it, there would be an uproar the likes we have t seen for years.)
..i disagreed with this statement. Men have made jokes, made statements and so on about women for decades in the same strength. And the world did not in fact end. Not only did it not end. But those men GAINED support for having said it.
That was the majority of my point. That attempting to point men as the ultimate victims was wrong. Considering other groups of people go through way worse and have jokes/so on at their expense be considered much more normal than penis size shaming.
I'm not telling you to shut. If anything i'm telling you to be louder. Not trying to keep you from expressing whatever pain comes with being small or smaller but express it in such a way that those who would like to make fun of others because of how they were born can't ignore you.
Because if you only care about penis size shaming and avoid the very real fact that not only do others get it worse but that they have gotten it worse for decades...you make your own voice regarding penis size shaming literally invisible. It's a little too on the nose for my normal liking but...
First they came for the Jews
and I did not speak out
because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for the Communists
and I did not speak out
because I was not a Communist.
Then they came for the trade unionists
and I did not speak out
because I was not a trade unionist.
Then they came for me
and there was no one left
to speak out for me.
Martin Niemollee
THIS. Is what i'm saying.
The more YOU try to force this into my pain and suffering is more important than others. The more YOU will be ignored. And the more you mischaracterize the plight of others in an attempt to make you look like the ultimate victims the worse it'll be for you.
You: If a guy did it then people would be upset and you'd never hear the end of it.
Me: Men have already for decades said and done exactly what you just said as a hypocritical and not only has not much happened from it but they flat out gained more male supporters across the board.
You: Oh so now you're trying to shut me up.
Me: No, i'm saying you're wrong very very wrong. That other groups of people are targeted much more than men with small or smaller. And that ignoring that fact will turn every last one of them against you.
You: You're ignoring what men with small or smaller have to go through. And you're doing so because you're privileged not to have to deal with it.
Me: No, i've continuously said it isn't right. And not how it feels to be singled out based simply on how you were born. I'm a black man in america who has been called a racist simply for saying racism exists. Difference is you can leave the house and not be automatically targeted. I cannot.
You: You're still trying to silence my voice though. Because we have made strides in humanity toward slowlying down racism.
Me: Right and that doesn't mean a racist cop won't just up and decide to end my life. Doesn't mean that the cat calling of women the second they go outside has stopped. That fat shaming while people are literally in the process of losing weight isn't a thing. Every last one of those groups deals with it every single day in one way shape form or another. No matter if they're buck naked or not.
You: Then why aren't there more people outraged by small penis jokes and penis size shaming?
Me: Because the groups of people who've argued down body shaming to begin with in america specifically have way more influence than anyone else. It's so bad now that they've even convinced people that a person we all know is guilty after having seen them admit to crimes on tv was just acquitted. That's how much influence those kinds of people have on americans.
You: I don't have anything to do with that though. I don't support that sort of thing.
Me: You don't think you support that kind of thing but democracy dies when people get away with lying. When you create a thread that mischaracterizes the situation, you're literally helping the very same kinds of people who do the most penis size shaming.
You: How so?
Me: Because the groups that are traditionally targeted are traditionally targeted in the exact same way.
You: You're gonna have to explain that one better. I don't understand what you mean.
Me: Well instead of saying black people are savages that only care about themselves people say black people only care about themselves when it comes to politics. As if that's a bad thing given america's overall treatment of black people.
You: This isn't about racism though. I've already said it's irrelevant to the discussion. I'm not a racist. So why play the race card?
Me: It's not only the same strategy. Saying if blank happened then blank people would blank. It's false and is a literal strawman. People will say that black people only march when it's a cop that kills a black person. Not when it's a case of black on black crime. Completely ignoring the fact that all sorts of marches in the black community have happened specifically to stop black on black violence. And that that's pretty much all black people can do because we are also targeted in almost every category known to man.
You: Right but how does that relate to what i was saying?
Me: It's the same strategy. With of course the same outcome. If anyone were to illogically believe you that blank people wouldn't blank after blank which not only was proven to not be true but proven not to be true by a person whose existence proves it's not true. Then their illogical thought process would and does extend into other areas.
You: I'm still not following.
Me: Ok, how about this. Instead of teaching a kid that 2 + 2 = 4. You teach them that 2 + 2 = 5. Then send them on their way. What happens when they get to school?
You: I still don't understand how this has anything to do with what i said.
Me: Stick with me here. You send them off to school and what? Don't they fail math?
You: Yeah, because 2 + 2 doesn't equal 5.
Me: Ok, now imagine instead of a kid, it's an adult. And not only any adult but an adult with more influence over others than me or you. What happens then?
You: .....
Me: They have more influence so of course, instead of being told they're wrong. Others then begin to say 2 + 2 = 5.
You: You lost me.
Me: Logic isn't something we're born with. Being able to tell the difference between certain things in the realm of communication isn't something that comes with us as we come into this world. It's something we learn from each other.
You: How does this have anything to do with penis size shaming?
Me: If we learn something from someone who purposefully didn't get it right. Then that 2 + 2 = 5 ideology will spread into other areas. When we go to count money, when we go to give money, when we go grocery shopping, when we go to count doses for medication, when we trying to figure out how many pills we have so on and so forth.
You: I'm still not getting it.
Me: If how we learn is skewed. Everything else will be. And i just explained how racism, sexism, homophobia, transphobia and penis size shaming spread to begin with.
You: What?
Me: By people purposefully spreading misinformation specifically to make groups of people look bad. Something you literally just did with this thread. And by pushing out even more misinformation out there, you've added to the already massive amount of misinformation that exists. Raising the chances that people will learn incorrectly. And the more people learn incorrectly....the higher the chance will be that they'll agree with racist, sexist, homophobic, transphobic and penis size shaming things.
Basically, you just shot yourself in the balls.
