Should spanking kids be illegal? (Canada)

[D_Bob_Crotchitch]

I'd rather make you do chores as your punishment. Go clean the oven.

 

[EboniGoddess]

Rommette, that same thing happened here in my small town not too long ago. I had to fill out extensive applications, have reliable references and had our vet records checked out to even adopt two dogs last week. I had to provide nothing but a carseat for the ride home from the hospital for my daughter. It's sad isnt it?

Yeah it is. People don't understand that they can't hit small children like they hit adults. I saw someone hit a child sooo hard that the child started throwing up. I felt really bad :frown1: but it was a family member so I just left.

 

[EboniGoddess]

I'd rather make you do chores as your punishment. Go clean the oven.

How about go clean the attic:smile: and fix the fridge:biggrin1:

 

[Tattooed Goddess]

Yeah it is. People don't understand that they can't hit small children like they hit adults. I saw someone hit a child sooo hard that the child started throwing up. I felt really bad :frown1: but it was a family member so I just left.

I think a lot of adults fear getting involved with the parents when they do this. Esp family members. I've seen a lot of beatings in my childhood, but my parents wouldnt do anything about it because they were wimps. Not only do people fear physical reliation for intervening, they also fear having to take care of these children to keep them from going to foster care.

 

[Bbucko]

Bbucko, while it seems like i have it all together. I have to work VERY VERY hard to not lose my temper. Part of it is that i look at children as an example of their upbringing and i worry someone is going to think my child has a bad parent by some bad behavior she does.

...


The reason why i have 1 child is because i do not want to have more than i can emotionally handle on my plate. It wouldnt be a favor to my daughter to turn into a crazy mother!

MR-
I've gone through your posts in this thread and give you all the credit in the world. You really do know your shit when it comes to responsible parenting.

The question here is tricky. Parenthood doesn't come with an application attached. No one should remove discretion as to method from mothers and fathers in their choices.

But there has to also be some baseline of how much becomes too much. I'd leave it to the experts, myself, and hope that no child lives in the type of home my sisters and I did.

 

[deleted3782]

A person who speeds isnt necessarily someone who would commit road rage though. There should be laws for some things, but i have a feeling those who beat their children arent the ones who will be obeying the child spanking law. They will just not do it in public to get caught.

Patrolmen watch the roads to enforce the speed limit law, but they dont watch what goes on behind closed doors to protect these children.

Thats why I'm not up for a law...per se...though it is useful to reel in extreme abuse. I realize kids will be physically punished as long as humans exist, and there's very little society can do about it behind closed doors...except raise awareness and teach alternatives.

 

[D_Theophallus Kneedgroin]

Hmm, we should repeal all speed limits!

I'm not up for a law...per se...though it is useful to reel in extreme abuse. Too often folks throw their hands up in the air and say "the kid deserved it" or "thats the only thing he responds to" and its good to know that there are options. I have just been raised to understand that hitting is not a proper solution.

My problem with a law like this is I can see it doing more harm than good.
I believe a swift wack on the ass is not going to harm a child but let them know that certain behavor is not acceptable.

My fear is kids will be able to get well meaning parents in legal trouble and allow them to think they can get away with anything.


BTW, speed limits do not apply to me

 

[Tattooed Goddess]

MR-
I've gone through your posts in this thread and give you all the credit in the world. You really do know your shit when it comes to responsible parenting.

The question here is tricky. Parenthood doesn't come with an application attached. No one should remove discretion as to method from mothers and fathers in their choices.

But there has to also be some baseline of how much becomes too much. I'd leave it to the experts, myself, and hope that no child lives in the type of home my sisters and I did.

It means a lot to hear that from you.

I think the time it took for us to get pregnant- almost 4 years- it gave me a lot of time to think about why i wanted to be a parent and how i wanted to be a parent. Walking through life not being able to have a baby and watching others and their lack of parenting really makes you think about how different you want to be to your own kids.

I also think some of my own introspection on my childhood and teenage rebellion has made me try to guide my little ship in the right direction in order to not miss the continent 20 years from now- i hope that made sense? A few degrees off course can take you to another continent altogether.

I was a very promiscious young teenager, and i acted a lot of things out sexually prior to that really when i look at it. And going through those acts and the reasoning behind them has helped me think about what my parents could have done differently for me not to have been so messed up back then.

We should all strive to be better parents than the parents we had.

 

[WifeOfBath]

I'm sure a downie or fragile X kid would not be easy to reason with--autistics may lack empathy, but at least they have reasoning skills.

I know a lot of autistic adults and children that would take issue with the idea that autistic people lack empathy. They are not sociopaths. This is a total aside, but on reading this I wanted to see if MR has any opinion on the matter. On one hand, I think, it can be true, but on the other it doesn't exactly jibe with how I understand the emotional life of people with autism.

At any rate, about spanking children-- abuse is abuse, and we already have laws against child abuse. We don't even do a good job at enforcing the laws that already exist. A parent can inflict far more damage to a child with emotional and verbal abuse and neglect than they can by spanking them. It follows that legislating child abuse should be on a case to case basis that measures not what was done to the child but how much the child has been made to suffer. This isn't an easy thing to do at all. I just don't think outlawing spanking is going to curb child abuse. Parents who are physically abusive are generally also emotionally abusive.

I'm not a big fan of spanking but on occasion I can see it as a reasonable way to get a child's attention at times if they are behaving badly. It's like swatting a puppy on the ass with a rolled up newspaper-- it's more of a surprise to stop them in their tracks than physically painful. I don't know that this type of correction is necessary as a child gets to be school age or older.

Also, for me, spanking was less about physical pain and more about just plain embarrassment and sometimes humiliation, none of which require physical contact.

 

[deleted3782]

I believe a swift wack on the ass is not going to harm a child but let them know that certain behavor is not acceptable.

exwhysee gives numbahs a swift wack for disagreeing with him.

 

[D_Theophallus Kneedgroin]

exwhysee gives numbahs a swift wack for disagreeing with him.

It was bound to happen sooner or later...now lets have a drink :wink:

 

[rbkwp]

Overall the Citizens of New Zealand were totally against this, however the Parlimentarians passed it into law.
Many Parents objected to a Govt telling them how to raise there Children...and the possibility of Parents being made into Criminals, for often the most minor of Charges
Not to mention we have a Prime Minister with no Kid,s and several MPs of Trans Gender makeup.
So far it appears to have died a quiet Death,very few reports of any smacking as such.
With a token Prosecution (from memory) and the person was ..Let off' i think.

Myself,i believe a slight Smack is neccesary.
enz


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New Zealand Passes Anti-Smacking Bill


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Anti-smacking bill becomes law
6:05PM Wednesday May 16, 2007

The Smacking Debate

* Family First confident of smacking law referendum

Green MP Sue Bradford's controversial child discipline bill was tonight passed by Parliament, with only seven MPs voting against it.

The bill removes from the Crimes Act the statutory defence of "reasonable force" to correct a child, meaning there will be no justification for the use of force for that purpose.

The legislation also carries an amendment agreed earlier by Prime Minister Helen Clark and National leader John Key that says the police have the discretion not to prosecute complaints against a parent where the offence is considered to be inconsequential.

The bill was passed today almost two years after it was introduced in June 2005. The at times acrimonius debate on the bill has seen Parliament and the public sharply divided between the bill's supporters and its opponents.

But with the compromise amendment, most of that opposition faded away.

The Crimes (Substituted Section 59) Amendment Bill was tonight given its third reading by a vote of 113 to seven.

 

[DaveyR]

They did that here... little fuckers are out of control. Never mind outlawing spanking they should make it compulsory. And they should allow corporal punishments in schools too!

QFT :wink:

 

[Tattooed Goddess]

I know a lot of autistic adults and children that would take issue with the idea that autistic people lack empathy. They are not sociopaths. This is a total aside, but on reading this I wanted to see if MR has any opinion on the matter. On one hand, I think, it can be true, but on the other it doesn't exactly jibe with how I understand the emotional life of people with autism.

It really depends on the child, some of them have empathy but not always in every situation. It might come and go. For example, my kid might feel horrible at the thought of roadkill but just stare at the child who fell and skinned their knee.

At any rate, about spanking children-- abuse is abuse, and we already have laws against child abuse. We don't even do a good job at enforcing the laws that already exist. A parent can inflict far more damage to a child with emotional and verbal abuse and neglect than they can by spanking them. It follows that legislating child abuse should be on a case to case basis that measures not what was done to the child but how much the child has been made to suffer. This isn't an easy thing to do at all. I just don't think outlawing spanking is going to curb child abuse. Parents who are physically abusive are generally also emotionally abusive.

Beatings cause emotional and physical damage. Verbal abuse has damaged many people from having normal interpersonal relationships. I'm sure studies would show that more children are damaged from never getting any form of physical affection or being told they are loved than those who were swatted on the ass for being disobedient.

I'm not a big fan of spanking but on occasion I can see it as a reasonable way to get a child's attention at times if they are behaving badly. It's like swatting a puppy on the ass with a rolled up newspaper-- it's more of a surprise to stop them in their tracks than physically painful. I don't know that this type of correction is necessary as a child gets to be school age or older.

Good parents have a whole number of tricks up their sleeve in response to a child out of line. One method shouldnt be used everytime or else it loses its efficacy.

Also, for me, spanking was less about physical pain and more about just plain embarrassment and sometimes humiliation, none of which require physical contact.

The hard spankings hurt like hell and they usually were never done in front of anyone else. The little spat on the leg or butt in the store when sassing off was more about being embarassed that someone saw it. It worked well because i was pretty sensitive to embarassment.

 

[D_Kay_Sarah_Sarah]

Of course there should be laws nd limits but kids need to be spanked. The legal system has already taught them they can get away with anything so at least parents should be allowed to try and control their kids. Sometimes a "johnny that was bad" isnt enough

 

[Tattooed Goddess]

That's why i love George Lopez and his "Why you crying?" routine so much. I relate to it on both sides.

 

[D_Ivana Dickenside]

to pass a law that makes spanking illegal is ridiculous. spanking children and abusing children are two different things. i got plenty of spankings when i was a kid and i sure learned from them. after all my family IS asian, and asians are HARDCORE disciplinarians. i personally wouldn't go the spanking route it if i had children though... there's tougher ways to punish children without laying a hand on them.

 

[mista geechee]

We can argue that you are a "bad" parent if you spank your kids and that "good" parents don'r. But the simple fact of teh matter is that some kids just can't be talked to. Some are just hard headed. If my parents tried that "talking it out" shit with me I would be in jail and my sister would be a pregnant crackwhore.

Besides , kids will act the fuck up if they know they can do anything they want and only be "talked to".

The notion that every child can be talked to is wishful thinking of a utopian mind.

 

[danman202]

I dont see spanking as a violent act, i do see where it could be termed as such when people lose control. My daughter has been spanked as a concenquence and was warned ahead of time that it was going to happen and it was very matter of fact. One or two swats on her butt, not in a violent manner. I wasnt yelling and screaming at her.

I've experienced and been around a lot of kids who have been verbally abused as a form of punishment, and its not nearly as affective as a swat or two on the bum if you ask me.

Some kids can't be reasoned with, some kids also cant comprehend the communication no matter how many times you tell them to stop messing with the cat. A little bit of physical pain does get the message through.

It's always the people who never have kids who set these kinds of rules for other people who do.

if ur dealing with a child who cant understand nor comprehend no thin its rong to punnish him for it you need to seek a doctor not a switch

i think jails are overcrouded enuf with out such dumb laws sinding more to jail if a parrent is going to hit there child out of anger a law wont stop thim

if u ask me the law will do more bad thin good with how high prices are riseing in todays world parents dont neeed 100 doller fines for spanking an unruly child

i also belive that a law such as this conflicts with freedom of expression i know ppl judge others by there children so limiting the ways in witch thay can raise thim could be seen as limiting a parents freedom of expression

sorry for spelling errors

 

[mista geechee]

if ur dealing with a child who cant understand nor comprehend no thin its rong to punnish him for it you need to seek a doctor not a switch

There goes more of that talk it out shit. Or take them to some expensive ass doctor. But I guess it's a regional thing. I don't think you will come down here and find one person who is against spanking.

Besides , spanking has been going on for thousands of years , what's to all of a sudden say it's so wrong ?